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Halloween Horror Nights 34 (UOR) - Speculation & Rumors

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brian G.
  • Start date Start date Nov 6, 2024
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Parkscope Joe

Parkscope Joe

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  • Yesterday at 4:44 PM
  • #5,461
Legacy said:
Are soap operas art? Is Jiminy Glick or drag (treating fictional characters as real) art?

If your answer is yes, congratulations, you think wrestling is art.
Click to expand...

Hoodslam is art, I dunno what WWE is ;) :P (it's art)
 
Last edited: Yesterday at 4:58 PM
RGMick77

RGMick77

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  • Yesterday at 4:47 PM
  • #5,462
American pro wrestling walks hand in hand with popular culture. It involves writers with imaginations who create characters that perform in front of live audiences. It’s theater, mixed with ballet. The moves are rehearsed and choreographed, but there is also a need for improvisation, due to the live environment.

The amount of production that goes into an episode of WWE is staggering. There are moments of music, lighting effects, drones, and pyrotechnics.

Even the camera crews have to be highly skilled to catch everything in a way that makes it all look believable.

The people who do all of that are artists.
 
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CaretakerBajaBlast

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  • Yesterday at 4:56 PM
  • #5,463
Brb arguing with the underpaid worker at my local Subway if he should actually be called a sandwich artist
 
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Midnight Detective

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  • Yesterday at 5:18 PM
  • #5,464
Horror fans debating if wrestling is art and if it's had a negative impact on society is uh... ironic to say the least
 
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TheCodeMan95

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  • Yesterday at 5:42 PM
  • #5,465
Midnight Detective said:
Horror fans debating if wrestling is art and if it's had a negative impact on society is uh... ironic to say the least
Click to expand...
Yeah it's certainly a strange thread for this argument, in an event where Terrifier is front and center lol
 
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Parkscope Joe

Parkscope Joe

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  • Yesterday at 5:48 PM
  • #5,466
Midnight Detective said:
Horror fans debating if wrestling is art and if it's had a negative impact on society is uh... ironic to say the least
Click to expand...

Is it fans or is it a fan? Cuz I think it's one.
 
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Midnight Detective

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  • Yesterday at 5:58 PM
  • #5,467
Parkscope Joe said:
Is it fans or is it a fan? Cuz I think it's one.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that! It's been conversation since the rumor started and everyone's entitled to an opinion. Can't have a discussion forum without discussion!
 
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Parkscope Joe

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  • Yesterday at 5:59 PM
  • #5,468
Midnight Detective said:
I wouldn't say that! It's been conversation since the rumor started and everyone's entitled to an opinion. Can't have a discussion forum without discussion!
Click to expand...

I guess I've largely avoided it in the past.
 
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Jake S

Jake S

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  • Yesterday at 6:01 PM
  • #5,469
I think you can make a compelling case that WWE/WWF/whatever, and the kayfabe that it popularized (and has spread widely through other areas of pop culture), has not been for the better of our society. I don't think you can make the same case for horror as a genre, mostly because it's incredibly diverse. Now, if you want to argue that the Eli Roth Era Of Horror was bad for society, or something along those lines... I'm not sure I agree, but I think you could make the argument.
 
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Casper Gutman

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  • Yesterday at 6:14 PM
  • #5,470
Jake S said:
I think you can make a compelling case that WWE/WWF/whatever, and the kayfabe that it popularized (and has spread widely through other areas of pop culture), has not been for the better of our society. I don't think you can make the same case for horror as a genre, mostly because it's incredibly diverse. Now, if you want to argue that the Eli Roth Era Of Horror was bad for society, or something along those lines... I'm not sure I agree, but I think you could make the argument.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. Terrifier is unquestionably art. “Art” is not a judgement of quality - it can be good or bad, elevating or destructive. And Horror, despite periodic moral panics, has elevated and illuminated more then destroyed.

Perhaps the exact definition of “art” is academic, but I’ll return to a question I asked earlier (not just to Jake, but to everyone) - is reality TV art? What is the boundary of what cannot be art (not that this will be clear cut)?
 
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Tobias

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  • Yesterday at 6:20 PM
  • #5,471
CaretakerBajaBlast said:
Brb arguing with the underpaid worker at my local Subway if he should actually be called a sandwich artist
Click to expand...

This feels like a perfect post for the WWESubway account.

Anyways, I think today is a perfect example that things happen that is well beyond our control. You can plan all you want, but there's no telling when someone related to a company will pass. (Even when it's so on brand for Hogan to draw attention from other wrestlers.)

But ultimately, it happens. Either way, I'm happy we got both shows announced, especially with the return of the lagoon show!
 
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TheCodeMan95

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  • Yesterday at 6:22 PM
  • #5,472
Remember when we all thought FNAF and Terrifier would get the most discourse among the IPs this year?
 
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Brian G.

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  • Yesterday at 6:34 PM
  • #5,473
Casper Gutman said:
Perhaps the exact definition of “art” is academic, but I’ll return to a question I asked earlier (not just to Jake, but to everyone) - is reality TV art? What is the boundary of what cannot be art (not that this will be clear cut)?
Click to expand...

Well, the academic definition of art is the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

Whether we like it or not, it doesn't matter. Reality TV is mostly trash, but it fits the definition. It's edited and presented in a way to elicit an emotional response from the viewer.

Same goes for wrestling.
 
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Legacy

Legacy

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  • Yesterday at 6:41 PM
  • #5,474
Casper Gutman said:
Perhaps the exact definition of “art” is academic, but I’ll return to a question I asked earlier (not just to Jake, but to everyone) - is reality TV art? What is the boundary of what cannot be art (not that this will be clear cut)?
Click to expand...
What does reality TV have to do with anything, though? Professional wrestling (the catalyst for this discussion) is all performance presented as reality. But it’s not actual reality. Stories and characters may be informed by reality (like all art) but it’s all a performance and playing a character.

But I will say, yes. Reality television IS art the same way photography is art. It’s presenting a moment of the real world through the artist’s POV. And sometimes, just like in photography, the artist’s POV deliberately skews or manipulates what is seen by the observer to create an unrealistic situation.
 
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ssirin88

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  • Yesterday at 6:51 PM
  • #5,475
CaretakerBajaBlast said:
Brb arguing with the underpaid worker at my local Subway if he should actually be called a sandwich artist
Click to expand...
Bruh I would argue on whether or not Subway can be considered a sandwich
 
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GA-MBIT

GA-MBIT

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  • Yesterday at 6:55 PM
  • #5,476
I find the conversation of "Is X art?" to be pretty boring, as "Art" is kind of a meaningless and inherently subjective descriptor. It's an exercise in vibes and vibes alone. It's an argument rather off-topic for the thread and too abstract to ever resolve in a satisfying way.

Jumping in the muck though; I think any description of art that precludes lower media like Twitch streams, reality TV, street or modern art, or anything like that to be mixing up the word "art" to mean "good art", or more likely, "art that I enjoy / don't look down upon". These distinctions are entirely arbitrary, and entirely differ based on each person, their society or time period, and a million other unknowable factors.

I think everything people make can be considered art, whether it is meant as such or not. Is is interesting art? Boring art? Unremarkable? Meaningless? Actively harmful? It's still art, because someone made it.

The only things I don't necessarily consider art is that which isn't made by people. A forest wouldn't be considered art until someone writes about it, or paints it, photographs it, or anything like it. AI art fits in here too.

Even then though, would a Dam built by beavers be art? A bird's nest? I refuse to think any further than this equally abitrary point. I will instead simply pick up the bigger rock, bonk you on the head with it, and then continue about my day.

If you don't like WWE, that's totally chill haha. Everyone has their own personal calculus. In mine, I just don't agree that "art I don't enjoy" means it is not art.
 
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jwbitterman

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  • Yesterday at 7:01 PM
  • #5,477
There's little difference between a soap opera and fake wrestling. You can call them "art" but it's a very low form of artistic expression IMO.
 
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Casper Gutman

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  • Yesterday at 7:10 PM
  • #5,478
Legacy said:
What does reality TV have to do with anything, though? Professional wrestling (the catalyst for this discussion) is all performance presented as reality. But it’s not actual reality. Stories and characters may be informed by reality (like all art) but it’s all a performance and playing a character.
Click to expand...
This strikes me as a very apt description of reality TV as well.
Legacy said:
But I will say, yes. Reality television IS art the same way photography is art. It’s presenting a moment of the real world through the artist’s POV.
Click to expand...
This description I would question. It is precisely the relationship between the real and the unreal that I think is at question.

Perhaps the question is what isn’t art? At some point the term becomes meaningless.
 
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Brian G.

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  • Yesterday at 7:13 PM
  • #5,479
jwbitterman said:
There's little difference between a soap opera and fake wrestling. You can call them "art" but it's a very low form of artistic expression IMO.
Click to expand...

Well I don’t think anyone is arguing to hang anything wrestling in the Louvre. :lol:
 
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Legacy

Legacy

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  • Yesterday at 7:20 PM
  • #5,480
Casper Gutman said:
This description I would question. It is precisely the relationship between the real and the unreal that I think is at question.

Perhaps the question is what isn’t art? At some point the term becomes meaningless.
Click to expand...
Good job cutting out the rest of my explanation, as it allows you to try shifting the goalposts of your stance. But the argument stands, as the “artist” presenting a POV in reality TV is the production team (camera crew, producers, editors, directors) the same way it is in any television show.

I’ll reiterate - Reality television is the equivalent of surreal photography.
 
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