Halloween Horror Nights 34 (UOR) - Speculation & Rumors

[jseal777]

Does WWE not have a trios championship like AEW?

 

[RedRightDan]

Does WWE not have a trios championship like AEW?

Nope. Trios titles tend to be a more lucha or indie thing

 

[velocicoasterswife]

I'm not gonna go to bat too aggressively for Terrifier (I am in the like-don't-love camp, which is a small group) and I don't mean to be hostile to anyone here, but I just get curious about all the handwringing re: Terrifier. The movies are definitely tasteless, definitely exploitative, and, yes, definitely misogynistic. But so is Friday the 13th! The entire genre is constantly indulging in and celebrating violence, particularly against women. If I were to try to do the anthropological autopsy myself I'd say Terrifier feels grimier and more fetishistic because it goes out of its way to desexualize the violence - Art is neither pleasure-seeking (like Freddy Krueger) nor puritanical (like Jason Voorhees), he's just mischievous. Seeing him cut open female bodies forces us to confront the cultural notion that there's no such thing as "desexualized" violence against women (maybe no such thing as totally desexualized violence at all, hence the phrase "torture porn"), which is an uncomfortable thing to have to deal with, especially in a movie that is basically stupid and completely unaware of whatever point it's accidentally making.

Anyhow, none of this is going to be directly relevant to the haunted house, which will prob be a string of grisly-goofy splatter scenes. On a lighter note, now that the Wyatts have been leaked ten times over and everything else is hard-confirmed, here's my IP hype ranking:

1. Fallout - This was at the bottom of my list before I watched the show, but I'm so excited now.
2. Wyatt Sicks - Similarly, did not care until I looked further into this and now I'm obsessed with the aesthetics and watching the Wyatts on Smackdown whenever I can.
3. FNAF - I still wish this was based on the games, I hate the movie, but I'm optimistic that there'll be some fun sets and scares. Haunted Chuck E. Cheese's is a great pitch no matter how you slice it.
4. Terrifier - I know, I know. After all that!
5. Jason Un1v3rse - I love Friday the 13th but without more details on what they're actually allowed to do here, I just can't get excited. Feels like store-brand Jason. Hope I'm surprised!

 

[Lucky Planet]

I'm not gonna go to bat too aggressively for Terrifier (I am in the like-don't-love camp, which is a small group) and I don't mean to be hostile to anyone here, but I just get curious about all the handwringing re: Terrifier. The movies are definitely tasteless, definitely exploitative, and, yes, definitely misogynistic. But so is Friday the 13th! The entire genre is constantly indulging in and celebrating violence, particularly against women. If I were to try to do the anthropological autopsy myself I'd say Terrifier feels grimier and more fetishistic because it goes out of its way to desexualize the violence - Art is neither pleasure-seeking (like Freddy Krueger) nor puritanical (like Jason Voorhees), he's just mischievous. Seeing him cut open female bodies forces us to confront the cultural notion that there's no such thing as "desexualized" violence against women (maybe no such thing as totally desexualized violence at all, hence the phrase "torture porn"), which is an uncomfortable thing to have to deal with, especially in a movie that is basically stupid and completely unaware of whatever point it's accidentally making.

Anyhow, none of this is going to be directly relevant to the haunted house, which will prob be a string of grisly-goofy splatter scenes. On a lighter note, now that the Wyatts have been leaked ten times over and everything else is hard-confirmed, here's my IP hype ranking:

1. Fallout - This was at the bottom of my list before I watched the show, but I'm so excited now.
2. Wyatt Sicks - Similarly, did not care until I looked further into this and now I'm obsessed with the aesthetics and watching the Wyatts on Smackdown whenever I can.
3. FNAF - I still wish this was based on the games, I hate the movie, but I'm optimistic that there'll be some fun sets and scares. Haunted Chuck E. Cheese's is a great pitch no matter how you slice it.
4. Terrifier - I know, I know. After all that!
5. Jason Un1v3rse - I love Friday the 13th but without more details on what they're actually allowed to do here, I just can't get excited. Feels like store-brand Jason. Hope I'm surprised!

so are you saying that art the clown is a hero?

 

[velocicoasterswife]

so are you saying that art the clown is a hero?

Is Art the Clown's archetypal status important at all?

 

[RGMick77]

I’m an elder millennial who has seen all 3 Terrifier movies. The movies are definitely meant to be shocking and seem intent on making the viewer really uncomfortable. I get that there is a built-in entertainment value to shocking people and I won’t take that away from anyone.

However, my problem is the lack of real story or character development in the series. Those movies take a long time give you any characters to relate to. If I don’t care about the characters, then I don’t care if they are getting carved up into pieces. It just becomes mind-numbing and takes forever to sit through.

In my opinion, Part 2 has the best attempt at creating characters I can relate to a little bit. It also has the most interesting set pieces and could easily translate into a haunted house.

I hope Universal can make it into an entertaining haunted house because I do want to enjoy it more than I enjoyed the movies.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I'm not gonna go to bat too aggressively for Terrifier (I am in the like-don't-love camp, which is a small group) and I don't mean to be hostile to anyone here, but I just get curious about all the handwringing re: Terrifier. The movies are definitely tasteless, definitely exploitative, and, yes, definitely misogynistic. But so is Friday the 13th! The entire genre is constantly indulging in and celebrating violence, particularly against women. If I were to try to do the anthropological autopsy myself I'd say Terrifier feels grimier and more fetishistic because it goes out of its way to desexualize the violence - Art is neither pleasure-seeking (like Freddy Krueger) nor puritanical (like Jason Voorhees), he's just mischievous. Seeing him cut open female bodies forces us to confront the cultural notion that there's no such thing as "desexualized" violence against women (maybe no such thing as totally desexualized violence at all, hence the phrase "torture porn"), which is an uncomfortable thing to have to deal with, especially in a movie that is basically stupid and completely unaware of whatever point it's accidentally making.

Anyhow, none of this is going to be directly relevant to the haunted house, which will prob be a string of grisly-goofy splatter scenes. On a lighter note, now that the Wyatts have been leaked ten times over and everything else is hard-confirmed, here's my IP hype ranking:

1. Fallout - This was at the bottom of my list before I watched the show, but I'm so excited now.
2. Wyatt Sicks - Similarly, did not care until I looked further into this and now I'm obsessed with the aesthetics and watching the Wyatts on Smackdown whenever I can.
3. FNAF - I still wish this was based on the games, I hate the movie, but I'm optimistic that there'll be some fun sets and scares. Haunted Chuck E. Cheese's is a great pitch no matter how you slice it.
4. Terrifier - I know, I know. After all that!
5. Jason Un1v3rse - I love Friday the 13th but without more details on what they're actually allowed to do here, I just can't get excited. Feels like store-brand Jason. Hope I'm surprised!

I think it’s worth considering the difference between Terrifier, Friday, and Nightmare, but I don’t agree with your read here. I would not agree that “mischievous” is somehow inherently desexualized, or that Jason is any more inherently “sexual” then Art. I would argue that Terrifier, by depicting the killer as more inherently “comedic”, invites the audience to identify with him to a much greater extent than Jason does. Jason is essentially a cypher devoid of character, a blank slate, while Art is clearly heavily influenced by one of the most charismatic villains of modern pop culture, The Joker. I’d also point out that, “In its brutal excess it unknowingly forces us to confront the misogyny of slasher violence,” while a valid academic argument, is not an explanation for the pleasure derived from the series by the vast majority of its viewers and only raises further questions about the implications of its popularity.

Freddy is a trickier comparison because he bears substantial similarities to Art - a charismatic prankster who torments his victims. I think it’s important to note that the torture he inflicts is explicitly psychological (although this can shift a bit from film to film) and fantastical while Terrifiers reputation rests on real, vivid physical damage and pain that could occur in the real world.

It’s also worth noting that the budgetary and technical limitations and dated elements of Friday and Nightmare are a huge part of their charm. The violence is unreal, whereas Terrifier’s entire reason for existence is to make the brutality as believable as possible. It’s not a coincidence that modern, “realistic” versions of Friday and Nightmare, films with mainstream Hollywood budgets and experienced casts and crews, were utterly joyless failures that lacked the appeal of the original series.

PS: As to FNaF, I think it’s a profoundly stupid series based on its merits, not on the age of its fan base. I’m still excited for the house - it’s probably in or close to the top half of my anticipation list, which is really saying something about this year’s lineup.

 

[velocicoasterswife]

I think it’s worth considering the difference between Terrifier, Friday, and Nightmare, but I don’t agree with your read here. I would not agree that “mischievous” is somehow inherently desexualized, or that Jason is any more inherently “sexual” then Art. I would argue that Terrifier, by depicting the killer as more inherently “comedic”, invites the audience to identify with him to a much greater extent than Jason does. Jason is essentially a cypher devoid of character, a blank slate, while Art is clearly heavily influenced by one of the most charismatic villains of modern pop culture, The Joker. I’d also point out that, “In its brutal excess it unknowingly forces us to confront the misogyny of slasher violence,” while a valid academic argument, is not an explanation for the pleasure derived from the series by the vast majority of its viewers and only raises further questions about the implications of its popularity.

For the record I don't disagree with either of these takes, I think there's a pretty evenly distributed libidinal aspect to most slasher villains, it's just that there's a light, kind of delightful element to the fact that the victims in F13 are allowed to be explicitly horny and slaughtered while the victims in Terrifier are presented as kind of sexless objects so the slaughter has to be, to some degree, the sexual element. Like I said, that's why the violence in Terrifier feels more fetishistic even though there is literally less sex happening onscreen. I'm more trying to unpack why people are so immediately averse to the series than why a different group of people is so delighted by it (although with horror those two questions tend to have the same answer, for better and for worse).

And of course this conversation veers so far away from any discussion of the actual haunted house that it's a little silly to be having it on this forum, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[CoryLevy91]

Honestly? It's vibes. Outside of one entry the Friday the 13th series has never felt like an intended lashing out against women. Jason Voorhees slaughters men and women just the same as Art but there is a very different tone, feeling and intent behind the killings. I don't think that's a stretch in the slightest. Horror films are obviously erected on the foundation of human mortality but that doesn't mean one murder has the same vibe or juxtaposition as every other. I think it's not hard to believe the Terrifier series just straight up has bad vibes for a lot of people. Doesn't mean there aren't some good things about them.

Again, all of this to say the violence and gore and the vibe around them isn't the reason why I dislike them. They're just repetitive and not very good to me.

Also, thinking any reaction to a piece of art is slanted one way or the other solely because of your age is pretty laughable. You want to argue life experiences or the amount of them affect your response, sure. Straight up just age? Nah.

 

[queenmetroid]

Exactly this. I grew up on horror, to this day I still try to watch a new/new to me horror movie every night, so to say I’ve seen some duds is an understatement, and I’ve given a fair shot by watching through all of those films, even the original anthology, and I can safely say that franchise has been among the worst I’ve personally ever seen. I’ve always loved the horror genre, despite how awful it’s been to my gender through the decades I’ve found my favorites in it, but these films have somehow managed to feel like they’re actively trying to punch down and, especially coupled with what we know of Damien Leone and his being problematic at best, I just can’t support it.

Horror is subjective and we’re all going to see it through our own unique lenses, for me I can’t see past how much that franchise seems to really hate women. For others they can appreciate the gore, and that’s great. Others can appreciate the comedy, and that’s great too. I can only speak for myself and what I see in those movies and, for me, it’s egregiously bad.

What concerns me is earlier in this thread you're having to tiptoe around outright condemning the film with a much less forceful, "Well, if you like it you like it" than I think you otherwise would because then you have to defend against absurd accusations about you being old or out of touch. The film's language towards women is incredibly misogynistic and there's no getting around that. Movies do not exist out of a broader cultural context, and it's hard to respect Terrifier for a number of reasons, including the state of the world.

In regards to the comedy, I would bring a counter example of something like in the clown movie Stitches where the antagonist tears a man's dick off and ties it to a balloon and it flies away. While gross and stupid, it doesn't linger, it makes its point and moves on. Freddy slamming someone's head into a TV and yelling, "Welcome to primetime, bitch!" is comedy because of the unrealistic and inherent absurdity of the scenes.

That is really the primary distinction for me. If the Terrifier killing scenes were taken on their own and released by a deranged murderer, they would be mostly indistinct from the thing they are replicating, and that is what makes Terrifier torture porn, regardless of the purported over the top nature of the killing. Also, the suffering doesn't have a particular point. It's just sort of there with no justification for it's existence. I'm not even against torture porn. Even Saw, which is a franchise I have generally enjoyed, at least is trying to make a point about the value of life and vigilante justice. So when someone says, "See, it's a comedy because you laugh at the in-depth graphic exploitative human suffering of which there is a ton of in the world!", it sort of comes off as a flimsy excuse. That's when the excuse of it being a really good SFX reel makes it worse, not better. Horror movies have long had a moral justification (however thin) for their existence, such as don't do X or the Boogeyman will get you, or dealing with the personification of evil. Art the Clown serves as a barest framework for focusing on and glorifying the killing with no specific philosophical reason or motivation, and the movies don't even try to explain it except with awful bolted on made-up-as-we-go retcons to address that specific criticism. That's made even worse by the fact that it's violence committed against women in a gender specific way.

At the end of the day, if someone likes it, that's fine, and I'm likely going to go into the house once regardless, but I'm not going to pretend like the franchise it's based on doesn't have a lot of issues. When I try to be critical about the media I consume, Terrifier doesn't really work for me as it's hard to justify for reasons other than "Haha, black and white clown do funny thing and go stab stab stab." I just don't think anyone should be accused of anything or demeaned for their valid criticism of the franchise.

 

[Allison]

What concerns me is earlier in this thread you're having to tiptoe around outright condemning the film with a much less forceful, "Well, if you like it you like it" than I think you otherwise would because then you have to defend against absurd accusations about you being old or out of touch. The film's language towards women is incredibly misogynistic and there's no getting around that. Movies do not exist out of a broader cultural context, and it's hard to respect Terrifier for a number of reasons, including the state of the world.

In regards to the comedy, I would bring a counter example of something like in the clown movie Stitches where the antagonist tears a man's dick off and ties it to a balloon and it flies away. While gross and stupid, it doesn't linger, it makes its point and moves on. Freddy slamming someone's head into a TV and yelling, "Welcome to primetime, bitch!" is comedy because of the unrealistic and inherent absurdity of the scenes.

That is really the primary distinction for me. If the Terrifier killing scenes were taken on their own and released by a deranged murderer, they would be mostly indistinct from the thing they are replicating, and that is what makes Terrifier torture porn, regardless of the purported over the top nature of the killing. Also, the suffering doesn't have a particular point. It's just sort of there with no justification for it's existence. I'm not even against torture porn. Even Saw, which is a franchise I have generally enjoyed, at least is trying to make a point about the value of life and vigilante justice. So when someone says, "See, it's a comedy because you laugh at the in-depth graphic exploitative human suffering of which there is a ton of in the world!", it sort of comes off as a flimsy excuse. That's when the excuse of it being a really good SFX reel makes it worse, not better. Horror movies have long had a moral justification (however thin) for their existence, such as don't do X or the Boogeyman will get you, or dealing with the personification of evil. Art the Clown serves as a barest framework for focusing on and glorifying the killing with no specific philosophical reason or motivation, and the movies don't even try to explain it except with awful bolted on made-up-as-we-go retcons to address that specific criticism. That's made even worse by the fact that it's violence committed against women in a gender specific way.

At the end of the day, if someone likes it, that's fine, and I'm likely going to go into the house once regardless, but I'm not going to pretend like the franchise it's based on doesn't have a lot of issues. When I try to be critical about the media I consume, Terrifier doesn't really work for me as it's hard to justify for reasons other than "Haha, black and white clown do funny thing and go stab stab stab." I just don't think anyone should be accused of anything or demeaned for their valid criticism of the franchise.

I completely agree with all of your points, the only reason why I have a tendency to tiptoe around how I really feel about it publicly (at least on here lol) is to not offend its fans. As strongly as I am against it (as an example I won’t be attending this year due to its inclusion), I know there’s plenty of people that are strongly for it and I don’t want them to think they’re unwelcome to use this site.

Outside of IU, I can generally use one word to sum up how I feel about the Terrifier franchise, but on here, I’m gonna try to tread more carefully.

 

[Midnight Detective]

especially coupled with what we know of Damien Leone and his being problematic at best

Genuine question for anyone, (I replied to this post for context only) and certainly not trying to change or discredit anyone's opinion - has Leone himself said or done something himself that I'm unaware of? I've seen comments that say similar in much harsher tones but I haven't seen any indication of such?

To me, personally, what elevates the Terrifer films are the cast and crew. Based off everything I've seen and read they're all gracious and nice people.

I would argue that Terrifier, by depicting the killer as more inherently “comedic”, invites the audience to identify with him to a much greater extent than Jason does.

"I wanted to reintroduce the audience to Art the Clown as if they’d never met him before. Because a lot of times in franchises, by the time you get to a part three, you’re very comfortable with the killer. You’re excited to see the killer. You’re not afraid of the killer. You’re basically rooting for the killer. I didn’t want that to be the case with Art the Clown."

 

[Tobias]

"I wanted to reintroduce the audience to Art the Clown as if they’d never met him before. Because a lot of times in franchises, by the time you get to a part three, you’re very comfortable with the killer. You’re excited to see the killer. You’re not afraid of the killer. You’re basically rooting for the killer. I didn’t want that to be the case with Art the Clown."

He may not have wanted that to be the case, but the fanbase pretty much cheered for Art in the 3rd film so I'm not sure he knows his own audience in that regard.

 

[Jake S]

He may not have wanted that to be the case, but the fanbase pretty much cheered for Art in the 3rd film so I'm not sure he knows his own audience in that regard.

Yeah, if this was the goal … gotta say it was a failure!

 

[Circ]

If, hypothetically, there was a franchise at HHN or Universal that was supporting organizations and beliefs that are causing and emphasizing violence against women and marginalized groups, along with having a deleterious effect on the world in general, I would not buy a t-shirt or anything involving said franchise first-hand from Universal. Perhaps maybe consider buying them off eBay this year.

This is not directed at any one franchise. This is me coming from other fields where these topics have come up saying look into the creators of any franchises this year or working with Universal in general and what they've said and done and if you feel like you do not agree with them, determine whether you are directly funding them through your merch purchases. This goes doubly so if said creators are on record as putting their profits into funding political matters. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, I'm only giving advice on how to enjoy the event if a particular franchise is having a negative effect on your experience. It's very clear that certain IPs this year are incredibly unpopular on an essential level to a vast variety of views for different reasons. A Universal/HHN ticket, as I've come to understand from previous contracts and as relayed to me on this website, does not directly feed into those profits beyond the idea of "We licensed a franchise for use expecting that it would be popular". Merch money does.

 

[Allison]

Genuine question for anyone, (I replied to this post for context only) and certainly not trying to change or discredit anyone's opinion - has Leone himself said or done something himself that I'm unaware of? I've seen comments that say similar in much harsher tones but I haven't seen any indication of such?

To me, personally, what elevates the Terrifer films are the cast and crew. Based off everything I've seen and read they're all gracious and nice people.

"I wanted to reintroduce the audience to Art the Clown as if they’d never met him before. Because a lot of times in franchises, by the time you get to a part three, you’re very comfortable with the killer. You’re excited to see the killer. You’re not afraid of the killer. You’re basically rooting for the killer. I didn’t want that to be the case with Art the Clown."

Damien Leone has thrown his cast (most notably David Howard Thornton, the actor that plays Art the Clown) under the bus for posting about politics & human rights issues on their own personal social media.

So, for me personally, I cannot support someone that would chastise another simply for supporting a marginalized group.

Quotes are in this article, including a pretty damning doubling down one that he went on to delete: link.

 

[CoryLevy91]

Leone's playing it in the middle so as to not offend anyone was really, really awful. Especially since all his own film's stars were doing were standing up and speaking for targeted minorities. Literally no reason to speak in opposition to that unless all you really care about is making as much cash as you want.

Dude literally came out and said he stands for nothing and doesn't care about people under attack. Cinematic quality aside, Leone as a person is undeniably reason enough to not want to support the Terrifier films at all if you so choose. He could have just as easily said he doesn't make films with that deep of a meaning (LOL but still) and also supported minorities.

 

[Casper Gutman]

If, hypothetically, there was a franchise at HHN or Universal that was supporting organizations and beliefs that are causing and emphasizing violence against women and marginalized groups, along with having a deleterious effect on the world in general, I would not buy a t-shirt or anything involving said franchise first-hand from Universal. Perhaps maybe consider buying them off eBay this year.

This is not directed at any one franchise. This is me coming from other fields where these topics have come up saying look into the creators of any franchises this year or working with Universal in general and what they've said and done and if you feel like you do not agree with them, determine whether you are directly funding them through your merch purchases. This goes doubly so if said creators are on record as putting their profits into funding political matters. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, I'm only giving advice on how to enjoy the event if a particular franchise is having a negative effect on your experience. It's very clear that certain IPs this year are incredibly unpopular on an essential level to a vast variety of views for different reasons. A Universal/HHN ticket, as I've come to understand from previous contracts and as relayed to me on this website, does not directly feed into those profits beyond the idea of "We licensed a franchise for use expecting that it would be popular". Merch money does.

It’s more than a little depressing that I don’t know which IP primarily motivated this post... it could be several.

Looking forward to Fallout!

 

[velocicoasterswife]

"I wanted to reintroduce the audience to Art the Clown as if they’d never met him before. Because a lot of times in franchises, by the time you get to a part three, you’re very comfortable with the killer. You’re excited to see the killer. You’re not afraid of the killer. You’re basically rooting for the killer. I didn’t want that to be the case with Art the Clown."

To switch sides for a second, I will say the biggest shortcoming in the Terrifier movies to me is that Art the Clown is the only "fun" character in them. The audience is sort of encouraged to root for him just because nobody else is doing anything. Rewatching Friday the 13th Part IV last night I was struck by how emotionally upsetting it was whenever Jason showed up because I was sincerely endeared to the kids he was killing, they were funny, they were cute, they had desires in life that I wanted to see them fulfill. The characters in Terrifier sometimes have goals, motivations, etc., but they never have personalities while Art is overflowing with personality.

 

[Lucky Planet]

all I can say is that Jason V.orhees or Mickey M.yers never seemed to enjoy their killing.

sure they kill. yes they kill women. but they do it quick and fast, they don't linger. the killing is just as quick as possible, they just want to end the life. their goal is to end the victim.
( leatherface has mental problems and kills for his family, Jason has problems too. they might not even fully understand what was going on )


they cannot, in any way on earth, be compared to Art the Clown......no way. I refuse and reject that comparison. no way.

the only characters that can be compared to Art is Freedy Krueger, of course,
but also Capt Howdy from STRANGELAND.
and maybe the killer from MANIAC.
and Otis from HOUSE OF 1000 CORPSES.
these characters definitely hate women. they might kill men as well, sure ...... but they are really nasty towards women. there's a specific anger towards. women. a disgust almost. ( the whole excuse that Art and these other guys also kill men so it isn't sexist is pure baloney. these guys love to torture and destroy women)