Cars area coming to Magic Kingdom

[saint.piss]

I just want a Moana ride in MK and I'll be 100% satisfied imo. I'm shocked it hasn't been greenlit yet

 

[mccgavin]

Also might be a hot take but I wouldn't mind MK losing It's A Small World next. I know it won't happen but the WDW version of IASW is my least favorite version that I've experienced. Bring the TDS Tangled ride!

I understand you've had the privilege to visit Disney Parks around the world a number of times, but for a lot of people, they just have one Disney Park that they are able to visit over the course of their life. Even if rides like Pirates and Small World aren't quite as good as versions found at other parks, they are still iconic and quintessential Disney attractions, and their absence would leave a gaping hole in the park's lineup.

As for Tangled, that ride seems to be rather short, and doesn't have a lot going on. It's fine as a supplementary attraction at Fantasy Springs, but I don't think it's prominent enough to warrant being brought over to Florida, especially in place of something as important as Small World.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Small World isn't an E-ticket anymore... but it does pull guests in. It has a ridiculous theoretical throughput of 3,000 guests an hour that results in little to no waits throughout the day. If Peter Pan's Flight had the same capacity, it'd probably have similar wait-times.

 

[saint.piss]

They should at least improve it tbh. Do an extended refurb or something, that ride could be so much better !

 

[belloq87]

It’s also so much smaller you can’t even make that comparison in good faith.

Of course I can! My point is that Disneyland, boxed-in and space-constrained, managed to fit a new, 14-acre expansion land around the backside of the river and create a full walking loop around it.

WDW management could have found a way to do basically whatever they wanted back there if they cared to make the effort (and spend the money). And with World Showcase Lagoon being an almost one-and-a-quarter mile loop around (which doesn't factor-in the front of the park), I don't see putting new attractions/lands behind the back corner of the Rivers of America and creating a new loop around the area being distance-prohibitive in any way, either.

 

[Freak]

Just seeing how DCA is able to add three E-tickets, a glorified indoor flat ride, including an entire land all while sacrificing an aging C-ticket dark ride in a fairly land-locked park, and then see WDW pull this is kinda infuriating.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Of course I can! My point is that Disneyland, boxed-in and space-constrained, managed to fit a new, 14-acre expansion land around the backside of the river and create a full walking loop around it.

WDW management could have found a way to do basically whatever they wanted back there if they cared to make the effort (and spend the money). And with World Showcase Lagoon being an almost one-and-a-quarter mile loop around (which doesn't factor-in the front of the park), I don't see putting new attractions/lands behind the back corner of the Rivers of America and creating a new loop around the area being distance-prohibitive in any way, either.

Beat me to it, to get from the entrance of WS to America you have to walk half a mile (2,640 feet). To go around the full Rivers of America (as it is currently), it's roughly 3,300 ft. Going around DAK's eastern lake (where Rivers of Light was) is about 2,500 ft. Going around the USF lagoon is 2,900 ft. Disney did a great job in making the river appear far larger than it actually is.

It's a lot of walking, but certainly doable. With some adjustments like Disneyland's, the walk wouldn't be too dramatic. Ultimately, the cost of filling in those wetlands back there forced them to choose a far easier and cheaper alternative.

I think the ultimate compromise would have been to cut off Tom Sawyer at the bridge, with a path connecting Haunted Mansion to the island and then onto Big Thunder. I don't necessarily think they needed to keep the Liberty Belle as an attraction, but it would have been nice to keep its aesthetic.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Of course I can! My point is that Disneyland, boxed-in and space-constrained, managed to fit a new, 14-acre expansion land around the backside of the river and create a full walking loop around it.

WDW management could have found a way to do basically whatever they wanted back there if they cared to make the effort (and spend the money). And with World Showcase Lagoon being an almost one-and-a-quarter mile loop around (which doesn't factor-in the front of the park), I don't see putting new attractions/lands behind the back corner of the Rivers of America and creating a new loop around the area being distance-prohibitive in any way, either.

Even if I grant you that MK could successfully build to the scale of the river’s perimeter in the same vein as Epcot (which I wouldn’t because World Showcase is physically shallow and not conducive to the even more extensive walking needed to make multiple “immersive” lands), that doesn’t change that Tom Sawyer Island was rarely visited and had major logistical problems.

If the argument is that the island/the river provided the park aesthetic value, I’d say that the same level of aesthetic (trees, water, and a few place-making structures visible from the other side of the river) could very feasibly be achieved as part of the new expansion. In fact, the list of additions to Disney World dating back to New Fantasyland suggest that, at the very least, this project will look good. If after all is said and done the argument can be made that a new E-ticket ride is inferior in quality to a playground and boat ride, then I’ll concede my point entirely.

I think the ultimate compromise would have been to cut off Tom Sawyer at the bridge, with a path connecting Haunted Mansion to the island and then onto Big Thunder. I don't necessarily think they needed to keep the Liberty Belle as an attraction, but it would have been nice to keep its aesthetic.

Then what do you do with the Haunted Mansion queue? You can’t build a pathway around it without filling in the river anyway. I guess you could shift the entire queue to hug the show building but I think entering from that angle hurts a good portion of that ride’s experience as well, and I think we can all agree the integrity of the Haunted Mansion attraction experience is more valuable than that of Tom Sawyer Island.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Then what do you do with the Haunted Mansion queue? You can’t build a pathway around it without filling in the river anyway. I guess you could shift the entire queue to hug the show building but I think entering from that angle hurts a good portion of that ride’s experience as well, and I think we can all agree the integrity of the Haunted Mansion attraction experience is more valuable than that of Tom Sawyer Island.

This is obviously blue sky, but just one of many ideas.

I'd keep the entire Frontierland waterfront as is, and like you mention, keep HM's queue pretty much intact. The main issue with HM is that it consistently backs up into Liberty Square itself, so I would resolve that with an indoor queue next to the interactive graveyard.

Liberty Belle could be easily repurposed as a guest lounge with some seating and maybe a band playing. I'd park it at Tiana's as part of a New Orleans mini section to not block views of the Cars/Villains horizon.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

View attachment 27242
This is obviously blue sky, but just one of many ideas.

I'd keep the entire Frontierland waterfront as is, and like you mention, keep HM's queue pretty much intact. The main issue with HM is that it consistently backs up into Liberty Square itself, so I would resolve that with an indoor queue next to the interactive graveyard.

Liberty Belle could be easily repurposed as a guest lounge with some seating and maybe a band playing. I'd park it at Tiana's as part of a New Orleans mini section to not block views of the Cars/Villains horizon.

This doesn’t seem much different from what they’re planning on doing LOL. You maintain Tom Sawyer Island and the boat, but not near to the same scale/level of usage. Plus, leaving Tom Sawyer Island as is where you’ve outlined robs them the opportunity to develop new sightlines necessary for what’s coming.

At that point, I’d rather they build the best version of what they’re setting out to build from the ground up vs. working around constraints to a compromise that really makes nobody happy.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

This doesn’t seem much different from what they’re planning on doing LOL. You maintain Tom Sawyer Island and the boat, but not near to the same scale/level of usage. Plus, leaving Tom Sawyer Island as is where you’ve outlined robs them the opportunity to develop new sightlines necessary for what’s coming.

At that point, I’d rather they build the best version of what they’re setting out to build from the ground up vs. working around constraints to a compromise that really makes nobody happy.

The difference is that Cars would be built partially within the railroad and beyond. Instead of shoehorning it into a mountain in the middle of the park, they could have put Radiator Springs farther out. I'm not entirely against this idea, it'll be very beautiful, but I think waterfronts in theme parks are some of the most tranquil moments in a theme park visit.

It remains to be seen what their actual plans are, we should see permits drop any day now, but I was hoping they could add scenic elements to the railroad, similar to what DL did.

 

[belloq87]

I don't necessarily think they needed to keep the Liberty Belle as an attraction

Overall, I like your alternative ideas, but I would just counter on this point: I think Magic Kingdom (and every park) needs more quality attractions that don't require waiting in long lines to experience. The Liberty Belle would always be a reliable option for something to do even if the park was slammed with crowds.

If the argument is that the island/the river provided the park aesthetic value, I’d say that the same level of aesthetic (trees, water, and a few place-making structures visible from the other side of the river) could very feasibly be achieved as part of the new expansion.

Could, yes. I am very skeptical and hope to be pleasantly surprised. Blog Mickey has a new article that seems to imply that the recent "Fun Map" artwork could very likely kind of be smoke and mirrors, over-exaggerating water and tree elements in order to (try to) placate concerns about the new aesthetics that are coming.

I hope it ends up looking incredible. And, frankly, it has to, or Disney will never hear the end of it.

In fact, the list of additions to Disney World dating back to New Fantasyland suggest that, at the very least, this project will look good.

The TRON and Cosmic Rewind showbuildngs are not encouraging. But yes, good work has been done, and if we were to learn that the people who handled Fantasy Springs, say, were designing this, I'd feel a lot better about it.

I think we can all agree the integrity of the Haunted Mansion attraction experience is more valuable than that of Tom Sawyer Island.

It remains to be seen how the integrity of the Haunted Mansion queue is going to be preserved in the current plan, too. The Mansion no longer being along the banks of a river pretty fundamentally changes its stature and placement.

At that point, I’d rather they build the best version of what they’re setting out to build from the ground up vs. working around constraints to a compromise that really makes nobody happy.

I think the "pure expansion" option (like what Disney hinted at when they started talking about "Beyond Big Thunder") is the one that would make everyone happy (unless there are people out there who actively wanted the Rivers of America and the Liberty Belle to no longer exist, but that would surely be a very tiny minority).

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Overall, I like your alternative ideas, but I would just counter on this point: I think Magic Kingdom (and every park) needs more quality attractions that don't require waiting in long lines to experience. The Liberty Belle would always be a reliable option for something to do even if the park was slammed with crowds.

Oh I definitely agree, this was just a plan I had once Disney revealed they were cutting it. I would have at the very least made it a short loop around 1/2 the island.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Overall, I like your alternative ideas, but I would just counter on this point: I think Magic Kingdom (and every park) needs more quality attractions that don't require waiting in long lines to experience. The Liberty Belle would always be a reliable option for something to do even if the park was slammed with crowds.

I agree but would argue Magic Kingdom and Epcot are the only Orlando parks where the opposite is actually true.

Magic Kingdom E-Tickets:
1. Tron
2. Tiana
3. Space Mountain
4. Pirates
5. Haunted Mansion
6. Big Thunder
7. Snow White
8. Jungle Cruise

Magic Kingdom Capacity Plays:
1. Railroad
2. Treehouse
3. Tiki Room
4. Magic Carpets
5. Country Bears
6. Small World
7. Mermaid
8. Philarmagic
9. Peoplemover
10. Carousel of Progress
11. Main Street vehicles (sometimes at least)
12. Parade
13. Castle shows
14. Fireworks
15. Monsters Inc

This ratio here is still super healthy, with a few more E-ticket additions actually standing to do the park some good.

And even then, the delineation is blurry. Pirates is an E-ticket in the traditional sense, but it also has a huge capacity—if you hit the Liberty Belle right as it’s left the dock that could end up being a longer wait than going through the typical Pirates queue.

 

[belloq87]

I agree but would argue Magic Kingdom and Epcot are the only Orlando parks where the opposite is actually true.

Magic Kingdom E-Tickets:
1. Tron
2. Tiana
3. Space Mountain
4. Pirates
5. Haunted Mansion
6. Big Thunder
7. Snow White
8. Jungle Cruise

Magic Kingdom Capacity Plays:
1. Railroad
2. Treehouse
3. Tiki Room
4. Magic Carpets
5. Country Bears
6. Small World
7. Mermaid
8. Philarmagic
9. Peoplemover
10. Carousel of Progress
11. Main Street vehicles (sometimes at least)
12. Parade
13. Castle shows
14. Fireworks
15. Monsters Inc

This ratio here is still super healthy, with a few more E-ticket additions actually standing to do the park some good.

And even then, the delineation is blurry. Pirates is an E-ticket in the traditional sense, but it also has a huge capacity—if you hit the Liberty Belle right as it’s left the dock that could end up being a longer wait than going through the typical Pirates queue.

I see your point, and basically agree (I think Peter Pan needs to be on the E-ticket list, though, because it has the consistent wait time of an E-ticket). Magic Kingdom is the most-balanced park in Orlando, and could absorb more E-tickets.

I would also say that if the Liberty Belle was at the dock, you'd be able to get on it, but let's not split hairs!

 

[OrlandoGuy]

I see your point, and basically agree (I think Peter Pan needs to be on the E-ticket list, though, because it has the consistent wait time of an E-ticket). Magic Kingdom is the most-balanced park in Orlando, and could absorb more E-tickets.

I would also say that if the Liberty Belle was at the dock, you'd be able to get on it, but let's not split hairs!

Haha you know what I meant

 

[OrlLover]

Ultimately, the cost of filling in those wetlands back there forced them to choose a far easier and cheaper alternative.

It’s not cheap by any means what they’re doing now.

Wetland development is not an easy endeavor so this blessing of size talk always gets a little muddled when you realize Florida is a swamp.

It's a major step in the right direction, assuming they nail the Cars & Villains ride, but it's only a few steps in what has been a neglected park.

I’m confused what this means since ultimately the MK has gotten a lot of investment over the years.

Sure they are behind on some refurbishments but they are starting to catch up on those.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I see your point, and basically agree (I think Peter Pan needs to be on the E-ticket list, though, because it has the consistent wait time of an E-ticket). Magic Kingdom is the most-balanced park in Orlando, and could absorb more E-tickets.

Peter Pan is a D-ticket, it's only a 60+ hour minute wait due to it's poor hourly capacity of about 800 guests an hour (at best). 800 guests at Pirates of the Caribbean (~3.2K an hour) is only a 15 minute wait.

It’s not cheap by any means what they’re doing now.

Wetland development is not an easy endeavor so this blessing of size talk always gets a little muddled when you realize Florida is a swamp.

I didn't say it was cheap, just a cheaper alternative.

I still think Cars should have been a DHS project, with MK getting Villains and later on a Tomorrowland redo.

 

[belloq87]

Peter Pan is a D-ticket, it's only a 60+ hour minute wait due to it's poor hourly capacity of about 800 guests an hour (at best). 800 guests at Pirates of the Caribbean (~3.2K an hour) is only a 15 minute wait.

I understand that, but of the two lists that were presented to me, it belongs on the one with the longest waits because the discussion was about the necessity of (good) attractions that don't require long waits.