Universal's Epic Universe General News & Discussion

[GAcoaster]

Yes, and Nintendo and Disney have some crossover, but people who love both will do both. The only real changes coming are where people choose to get their hotel (Universal has setup a better value proposition and better perks for resort guests at the moment), and how many days they choose to spend at each park.

The real danger for Disney is people choosing the Universal hotels over Disney's, and how many days Universal takes away from what was once a "trip to Disney". The sea change is coming where people do the trip to Orlando and primarily stay/visit Universal and are day guests to Disney, versus the current primary stay/visit to Disney and tack on a day or two at Universal. Disney could easily stave this off by building a bunch of new attractions across property and rebuilding/adjusting pricing on their hotels. The glorified motel rooms they currently offer at a higher price than some of Universal's family suites just aren't very appealing when the only real perk they get is direct transportation to the parks on overcrowded buses.

Either way, there is still more than enough business to support Disney and Universal.

 

[Loki]

The thing that affects me when it comes to whether I go to Disney or Universal is Dinsey's insistence on the reservation system. As a Florida resident and someone who lives an hour away from Disney's gates I used to (back in the day) just drive down to WDW buy a ticket and walk in. Now you have to reserve a specific day you want to buy the ticket and go to the park. Long gone are the days of just casually walking in and enjoying yourself. Thankfully, Universal has not done this.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

The thing that affects me when it comes to whether I go to Disney or Universal is Dinsey's insistence on the reservation system. As a Florida resident and someone who lives an hour away from Disney's gates I used to (back in the day) just drive down to WDW buy a ticket and walk in. Now you have to reserve a specific day you want to buy the ticket and go to the park. Long gone are the days of just casually walking in and enjoying yourself. Thankfully, Universal has not done this.

Correct, but Disney is finally next year moving away from this. APs still need it prior to 2PM, but haven't seem any parks sell out in the past few months now.

The single/multi-day tickets at both resorts are equally confusing though.

Disney still has the advantage of better in-park operations with consistent operating hours and parks staying open late. No reason why IOA should be closing at the same time as DAK.

 

[Jake S]

Disney still has the advantage of better in-park operations with consistent operating hours and parks staying open late. No reason why IOA should be closing at the same time as DAK.

this is what would/will keep me prioritizing disney over universal on future trips. spending the better part of five days at universal (one day at disney) this past trip really hammered home how much I prefer the in-park experience at disney. few things are major, more death by a thousand cuts, but I vastly preferred the operations and service at disney.

I'm not sure how much the average park guest cares about this (or whether they'd even agree with me) but that, in addition to having a lot of very fun attractions, will keep disney very competitive for years to come.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

this is what would/will keep me prioritizing disney over universal on future trips. spending the better part of five days at universal (one day at disney) this past trip really hammered home how much I prefer the in-park experience at disney. few things are major, more death by a thousand cuts, but I vastly preferred the operations and service at disney.

I'm not sure how much the average park guest cares about this (or whether they'd even agree with me) but that, in addition to having a lot of very fun attractions, will keep disney very competitive for years to come.

It's frustrating too since Universal is almost there to compete evenly. It's like they're afraid to take that last leap. I'd love to be wrong next year if we get additional ops updates as we've seen over the past year.

They have their survey team out around the park over the last few weeks or so asking about TM interactions with guests. Hoping that means they are planning on improving their training programs.

 

[GAcoaster]

But the operations and experience gap is closing as Universal improves and Disney slips in its hiring/training/overall experience. And individual CM/TMs can make all the difference. Even SeaWorld has some outstanding TMs who can make your day better, it's hit or miss anywhere anymore.

 

[Mad Dog]

this is what would/will keep me prioritizing disney over universal on future trips. spending the better part of five days at universal (one day at disney) this past trip really hammered home how much I prefer the in-park experience at disney. few things are major, more death by a thousand cuts, but I vastly preferred the operations and service at disney.

I'm not sure how much the average park guest cares about this (or whether they'd even agree with me) but that, in addition to having a lot of very fun attractions, will keep disney very competitive for years to come.

Yes, I agree. Seems like before covid, Universal ops were close to Disney. Since covid, Universal just can't get back to pre covid ops, while Disney has, for the most part. The USO experience also lacks since they're closing the parks earlier than they did the couple of years before covid and they temporarily gutted their nighttime entertainment. The new management team really needs to get their act together before, all of a sudden, it's time to open Epic.

 

[Disneyhead]

Yes, I agree. Seems like before covid, Universal ops were close to Disney. Since covid, Universal just can't get back to pre covid ops, while Disney has, for the most part. The USO experience also lacks since they're closing the parks earlier than they did the couple of years before covid and they temporarily gutted their nighttime entertainment. The new management team really needs to get their act together before, all of a sudden, it's time to open Epic.

21 months

 

[Tbad556]

I think a missing piece to this discussion over the past several months is that a lot of these operational issues being brought up are due to the transitional process with EU. HHN operations? I've been told it's almost exclusively first time HHN leads this year. Tech woes? I've been told that a lot of techs have already been pulled for EU. And so on. Inevitably, they're in the process of hiring more and more people & rushing to get them trained, but they're in the awkward in between stage right now where moving a lot of people for your brand new, top priority park leads to some things slipping through the cracks temporarily.

 

[SeventyOne]

Just to play Mouse's Advocate, because I feel this thread getting out over its skis a bit ...

• How to Train Your Dragon looks like it will be a blast -- once you're in the park. Millennial parents will bring their tween kids, but outside them marketing tough. Teens and convention-going adults aren't going to want to visit a "kiddie land" (even tho I bet they have fun if they do, whether or not they'll admit it), and the preschool set is too small/scared for dragon rides.
• The last Potter movie will be two Disney vault cycles old when the park opens, and while the books still feel evergreen, the brand has lost some luster as fans grew old enough to be political. Plus the law of diminishing returns--the most iconic places in the books are already covered, we're getting Paris from a flop of a prequel and a government building. Is this really a must-do for casual fans?
• Universal Monsters land will scare away most kids under 10. Just the name and concept, doesn't matter how it's executed. And to be blunt, the IP isn't even that big even among its obvious fans. Historically Monster houses tend to be in the middle of the pack of wait times at HHN. This IP isn't Stranger Things. I know this isn't a haunted house. but also worth noting the permanent haunted house in USH and multiple attempts at year-round haunts in Orlando have failed. Gen pop might not want this outside September/October.
• Nintendo will be a massive hit. The one guarantee. But ... it's a 3-ride land. Depending on tickets/transportation, easily paired with a "greatest hits" day at IoA, effectively replacing Studios.
• Speaking of transportation, it's shaping up to be a mess. They have a year and a half, but the roads aren't ready yet. Hour long entrance and exit traffic will definitely cloud opinions.

Could I be wrong? Of course. But I'm also old enough to remember when 2001 IoA was the best theme park in Orlando, but no one visited it until Hogsmeade opened. Being the best doesn't mean guests will automatically beat down your door.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Just to play Mouse's Advocate, because I feel this thread getting out over its skis a bit ...

• How to Train Your Dragon looks like it will be a blast -- once you're in the park. Millennial parents will bring their tween kids, but outside them marketing tough. Teens and convention-going adults aren't going to want to visit a "kiddie land" (even tho I bet they have fun if they do, whether or not they'll admit it), and the preschool set is too small/scared for dragon rides.
• The last Potter movie will be two Disney vault cycles old when the park opens, and while the books still feel evergreen, the brand has lost some luster as fans grew old enough to be political. Plus the law of diminishing returns--the most iconic places in the books are already covered, we're getting Paris from a flop of a prequel and a government building. Is this really a must-do for casual fans?
• Universal Monsters land will scare away most kids under 10. Just the name and concept, doesn't matter how it's executed. And to be blunt, the IP isn't even that big even among its obvious fans. Historically Monster houses tend to be in the middle of the pack of wait times at HHN. This IP isn't Stranger Things. I know this isn't a haunted house. but also worth noting the permanent haunted house in USH and multiple attempts at year-round haunts in Orlando have failed. Gen pop might not want this outside September/October.
• Nintendo will be a massive hit. The one guarantee. But ... it's a 3-ride land. Depending on tickets/transportation, easily paired with a "greatest hits" day at IoA, effectively replacing Studios.
• Speaking of transportation, it's shaping up to be a mess. They have a year and a half, but the roads aren't ready yet. Hour long entrance and exit traffic will definitely cloud opinions.

Could I be wrong? Of course. But I'm also old enough to remember when 2001 IoA was the best theme park in Orlando, but no one visited it until Hogsmeade opened. Being the best doesn't mean guests will automatically beat down your door.

I’m sure the overarching Universal Orlando Resort brand will do the majority of the legwork and render this a non-issue but ultimately I agree with this. I’ve been weary of the single-IP lands because of how limiting they are for future expansion…one of them underperforming is obviously not ideal but could be the only way to move away from this trend of the past 10+ years.

 

[Nico]

Just to play Mouse's Advocate, because I feel this thread getting out over its skis a bit ...

• How to Train Your Dragon looks like it will be a blast -- once you're in the park. Millennial parents will bring their tween kids, but outside them marketing tough. Teens and convention-going adults aren't going to want to visit a "kiddie land" (even tho I bet they have fun if they do, whether or not they'll admit it), and the preschool set is too small/scared for dragon rides.
• The last Potter movie will be two Disney vault cycles old when the park opens, and while the books still feel evergreen, the brand has lost some luster as fans grew old enough to be political. Plus the law of diminishing returns--the most iconic places in the books are already covered, we're getting Paris from a flop of a prequel and a government building. Is this really a must-do for casual fans?
• Universal Monsters land will scare away most kids under 10. Just the name and concept, doesn't matter how it's executed. And to be blunt, the IP isn't even that big even among its obvious fans. Historically Monster houses tend to be in the middle of the pack of wait times at HHN. This IP isn't Stranger Things. I know this isn't a haunted house. but also worth noting the permanent haunted house in USH and multiple attempts at year-round haunts in Orlando have failed. Gen pop might not want this outside September/October.
• Nintendo will be a massive hit. The one guarantee. But ... it's a 3-ride land. Depending on tickets/transportation, easily paired with a "greatest hits" day at IoA, effectively replacing Studios.
• Speaking of transportation, it's shaping up to be a mess. They have a year and a half, but the roads aren't ready yet. Hour long entrance and exit traffic will definitely cloud opinions.

Could I be wrong? Of course. But I'm also old enough to remember when 2001 IoA was the best theme park in Orlando, but no one visited it until Hogsmeade opened. Being the best doesn't mean guests will automatically beat down your door.

I get what you’re saying, but the world has shifted dramatically in 22 years. We’re a culture where newness, “first”, and experiences have only increased in importance. Get them in with these concepts, get them to come back with quality. People who don’t think highly of Universal won’t be breaking down the door, but word of mouth and more importantly FOMO will inevitably kick in.

The “it’s too scary” logic is kind of weird especially when Tower of Terror and Haunted Mansion are beloved attractions.

Also, calling the Ministry of Magic a “government building” is so reductive its hilarious. I don’t remember the Gringotts is a “financial institution” back in the day.

We all have sides, but all we can really do is wait and see what happens.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

I get what you’re saying, but the world has shifted dramatically in 22 years. We’re a culture where newness, “first”, and experiences have only increased in importance. Get them in with these concepts, get them to come back with quality. People who don’t think highly of Universal won’t be breaking down the door, but word of mouth and more importantly FOMO will inevitably kick in.

I think this plays directly into his point, though. Not too many people will be banging down the door to be first to get a pic with the cast of How to Train Your Dragon, or the streets of Paris as seen in Fantastic Beasts, or the castle from a black and white movie your most sought-after Instagram like hasn’t ever seen before. It’s not enough to just be a cool new thing to experience—to your point, people want something to brag about.

Nintendo will be doing the bulk of the heavy lifting but it’ll be a couple of years old by the time the park opens.

And don’t read this as some sort of prediction that Epic will be some sort of failure. Just adding to the spirit of the conversation

 

[Nico]

I think this plays directly into his point, though. Not too many people will be banging down the door to be first to get a pic with the cast of How to Train Your Dragon, or the streets of Paris as seen in Fantastic Beasts, or the castle from a black and white movie your most sought-after Instagram like hasn’t ever seen before. It’s not enough to just be a cool new thing to experience—to your point, people want something to brag about.

Nintendo will be doing the bulk of the heavy lifting but it’ll be a couple of years old by the time the park opens.

And don’t read this as some sort of prediction that Epic will be some sort of failure. Just adding to the spirit of the conversation

My point is new is new. And new beats specific IP draws. IP and word of mouth will carry more weight in year two. That I agree with.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I think a missing piece to this discussion over the past several months is that a lot of these operational issues being brought up are due to the transitional process with EU. HHN operations? I've been told it's almost exclusively first time HHN leads this year. Tech woes? I've been told that a lot of techs have already been pulled for EU. And so on. Inevitably, they're in the process of hiring more and more people & rushing to get them trained, but they're in the awkward in between stage right now where moving a lot of people for your brand new, top priority park leads to some things slipping through the cracks temporarily.

That's true, and I'll give Universal the benefit of the doubt, but its 2023 and the resort can't even operate all of its parking booths at full capacity when loading in for HHN.

Just to play Mouse's Advocate, because I feel this thread getting out over its skis a bit ...

• How to Train Your Dragon looks like it will be a blast -- once you're in the park. Millennial parents will bring their tween kids, but outside them marketing tough. Teens and convention-going adults aren't going to want to visit a "kiddie land" (even tho I bet they have fun if they do, whether or not they'll admit it), and the preschool set is too small/scared for dragon rides.
• The last Potter movie will be two Disney vault cycles old when the park opens, and while the books still feel evergreen, the brand has lost some luster as fans grew old enough to be political. Plus the law of diminishing returns--the most iconic places in the books are already covered, we're getting Paris from a flop of a prequel and a government building. Is this really a must-do for casual fans?
• Universal Monsters land will scare away most kids under 10. Just the name and concept, doesn't matter how it's executed. And to be blunt, the IP isn't even that big even among its obvious fans. Historically Monster houses tend to be in the middle of the pack of wait times at HHN. This IP isn't Stranger Things. I know this isn't a haunted house. but also worth noting the permanent haunted house in USH and multiple attempts at year-round haunts in Orlando have failed. Gen pop might not want this outside September/October.
• Nintendo will be a massive hit. The one guarantee. But ... it's a 3-ride land. Depending on tickets/transportation, easily paired with a "greatest hits" day at IoA, effectively replacing Studios.
• Speaking of transportation, it's shaping up to be a mess. They have a year and a half, but the roads aren't ready yet. Hour long entrance and exit traffic will definitely cloud opinions.

Could I be wrong? Of course. But I'm also old enough to remember when 2001 IoA was the best theme park in Orlando, but no one visited it until Hogsmeade opened. Being the best doesn't mean guests will automatically beat down your door.

Agree with most of your points. Most here would disagree, but Monsters isn't a major IP. The Monster houses at HHN have been terrific... but they're not a major draw. All renditions of them have posted similar waits to what the originals do. Oddfellow this year is drastically more popular (judging by waits) than Monsters (and it's not the location since last year it had the fortunate placement adjacent to the big IP last year).

On Transportation, I know it's not the main draw of a theme park fansite, but Orlando traffic is messy at the moment. Anyone who has been to HHN the past 2 years knows how bad getting into Universal is at the moment, specifically Universal Blvd - imagine that with who knows how many more buses shuttling guests between the current resort and EU.

 

[Loki]

A good ride is a good ride despite whatever IP is attached to it. A bad ride with a good IP will die (coughFast&Furiouscough), but a good ride with a IP nobody has an interest in will still draw numbers.

Edit: The Mummy is the inverse of Fast&Furious. The Mummy is a great ride with an IP that's not been relevant in over 12 years. And people still love The Mummy.

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

Epic is a game changer, plain and simple. Potter was a tease.

Hubris is a hell of a drug.

EDIT: True game changers are rarely forecast. And while I do not doubt Epic's ability to have meaningful impacts on the Orlando parks landscape, I find a lot of the wanton evangelization of Epic Universe to be hyperbolic, and a little redolent of the discourse around Galaxy's Edge before it opened.

To be clear, I would love if Epic Universe had a transformative effect on the theme park space, but I'm not really expecting anything more than a good park that drives more attendance to Universal. It's still going to have a lot of the problems that most new parks have (long concrete pathways between nothing, bad sightlines due to incomplete foliage cover, no shade in x areas, etc).

 

[darkridelover]

Hubris is a hell of a drug.

EDIT: True game changers are rarely forecast. And while I do not doubt Epic's ability to have meaningful impacts on the Orlando parks landscape, I find a lot of the wanton evangelization of Epic Universe to be hyperbolic, and a little redolent of the discourse around Galaxy's Edge before it opened.

To be clear, I would love if Epic Universe had a transformative effect on the theme park space, but I'm not really expecting anything more than a good park that drives more attendance to Universal. It's still going to have a lot of the problems that most new parks have (long concrete pathways between nothing, bad sightlines due to incomplete foliage cover, no shade in x areas, etc).

Ooo fancy words

 

[Loki]

Say what you will about Disney, but they are stepping up their game. This is a walkthrough of the new Hong Kong Disney Frozen land. I can imagine something similar to how HTTYD will feel (in a way).

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

Say what you will about Disney, but they are stepping up their game. This is a walkthrough of the new Hong Kong Disney Frozen land. I can imagine something similar to how HTTYD will feel (in a way).

They tend to do less of this in Orlando, especially. I’d lovveeeee for this somewhere in the states.