Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[ChrisFL]

I want Minas Tirith!! :thumbsup:

 

[JoeCamel]

Mines of Moria walk through with boo holes!

 

[JoeCamel]

Well, he's 93 years old. I think him leaving certainly led to Universal getting the rights, if they did indeed do just that.

That's what I meant, at 93 my dad was pretty far gone with old timer's. Maybe Chris just can't any longer and doesn't know...

 

[JungleSkip]

R&D and ROI won't be spread out as much which may limit scale due to the costs of rights as well as the build. I see them focusing solely on one location from the series than multiple.

I’ll take that bet.

 

[zg44]

The fact that NewLine was mentioned in the Amazon-Tolkien Estate press releases means that WB/NewLine designs are probably included in that TV deal. So it wouldn't be a surprise at all if the same happens for the theme park rights.

I'd assume though that NewLine/WB's share of earnings is not going to be anywhere near what it was for Potter though of course. Tolkien will probably keep a larger share than JKR due to the fact that they're the main representative.

So yeah, for now, just assume that the "movies' look" is included in the deals. It makes more sense that way.

 

[epcyclopedia]

How many people work at Universal now..?

My brain wants to say 35k but i dont know if that's right.

Disney is somewhere around 55k. So, the gap is certainly getting smaller.

 

[JoeCamel]

How many people work at Universal now..?

My brain wants to say 35k but i dont know if that's right.

Disney is somewhere around 55k. So, the gap is certainly getting smaller.

6 years ago they claimed 65000 in Orlando. Don't know what Universal says but that sounds right

 

[zg44]

How many people work at Universal now..?

My brain wants to say 35k but i dont know if that's right.

Disney is somewhere around 55k. So, the gap is certainly getting smaller.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/subscriber-only/2017/07/07/employers.html

73k for WDW and 23k for UOR according to that.

WDW runs with much higher employment per park, so that should make sense given the 2:1 proportion of parks now.

Also note that WDW runs with a much higher # of hotel rooms per park, and UOR is still relatively underhoteled in terms of # of hotel rooms per park. Hotels are a huge source of employment, so UOR's numbers will grow much faster as it increases its hotel count.

 

[awhen]

I want to see an animatronic Ent as a ride vehicle.

I don't suppose they would be allowed to use an appropriately Hobbit-scaled Bag End as a queue or walk through where everyone could bang their heads repeatedly?

 

[twebber55]

My hope is that the initial Middle-Earth land is on the scale of Hosgmeade, London, and Diagon Alley combined. Something in the 20-acre range, featuring multiple iconic locations, in close proximity, with around 2-3 e-tickets right off the bat. I know that's a stretch, but IMO it's the only way you can truly capture the scope and magic of Middle-Earth, and it'd be an awesome way to one-up both WWoHP and Galaxy's Edge.

My wishlist for the land is:
- The Shire is the first area guests enter, and it's around the same size as Hogsmeade, minus the Forbidden Journey half of the land. Here, you can get Hobbit-themed merch options, dine at a Hobbit-themed all you can eat buffet, and ride a c-ticket dark ride. The "dark ride" is basically like the rumored Yoshi attraction at SNW; except instead of boarding a Yoshi, you board a horseless carriage that was enchanted by Gandalf. This travels a bit outside, adding kinetic energy to the area, and a bit inside, showing a few show scenes of a Hobbit festival.
- Once guests walk past the smaller, secluded Shire, the land opens up in size and scope, showing a massive landscape inspired by the films. The locations of Rivendell and Mordor can be seen in the distance, and can be walked over to and explored. Along this path, guests can also dine at the Inn of the Prancing Pony, a quick service dining spot.
- Rivendell is similar in size and seclusion to Diagon Alley, and features more unique shopping and dining, iconic and beautiful architecture, and the queue for one of the two main e-tickets of the land. I'm not sure what the attraction would be story-wise, but I'd picture it being LOTR's equivalent to Forbidden Journey.
- Mordor is actually the least elaborate of these three locations, because IMO, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for us "normal humans" to be able to explore, shop, and dine in a land full of evil orcs. Instead, Mordor mainly features the iconic Dark Tower, which houses a next-gen drop ride which gives the Tower of Terror a run for its money. The queue for the attraction begins along the Black Gate, with guests entering the "secret passage" into Mordor. That is, until we reach a pre-show where guests are "captured" by orcs and sentenced to death inside the fires of Mordor... hence the drop tower aspect.

to add to Rivendell it must have many cool water falls

 

[OLSinFLA]

As long as the Tolkien family are alive, won't they resist anything to license it for a theme park?

There were times I believe Chris thought he wrote all the danm stuff himself.

 

[Universal 4 Life]

Kind of off topic but I wonder if the Lord Of The Ring movies will be available on Amazon Prime once the series premieres. Albeit they are separate entities I wonder if Amazon would allow it or view it as competition to the series.

 

[Legacy]

Eh...

Put the musical in Toon Lagoon theater and I’m good. Don’t really care about much else.

 

[zg44]

Kind of off topic but I wonder if the Lord Of The Ring movies will be available on Amazon Prime once the series premieres. Albeit they are separate entities I wonder if Amazon would allow it or view it as competition to the series.

There might be synergy there actually; it sounds as if Amazon can't really cover the events of the Fellowship and beyond in its TV show, so having the movies would be a sensible complement to their TV series.

 

[Frank Drackman]

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/subscriber-only/2017/07/07/employers.html

73k for WDW and 23k for UOR according to that.

WDW runs with much higher employment per park, so that should make sense given the 2:1 proportion of parks now.

Also note that WDW runs with a much higher # of hotel rooms per park, and UOR is still relatively underhoteled in terms of # of hotel rooms per park. Hotels are a huge source of employment, so UOR's numbers will grow much faster as it increases its hotel count.

Aren’t the folks at UoR’s hotels Loews employee’s? In a lot of ways I think this helps them build rooms w/o as big of a reliance of occupancy rates (not their labor)...but I imagine UNI’s direct employee count will always be bellow that of WDW, but if you start counting vendors and such, I assume the numbers get closer in the future.

 

[zg44]

Aren’t the folks at UoR’s hotels Loews employee’s? In a lot of ways I think this helps them build rooms w/o as big of a reliance of occupancy rates (not their labor)...but I imagine UNI’s direct employee count will always be bellow that of WDW, but if you start counting vendors and such, I assume the numbers get closer in the future.

It's complicated, but neither Universal nor Loews keeps the hotel employees in their headcount because the hotels are all joint ventures and neither consolidates them in their balance sheet. Loews takes a management fee and both Universal/Loews (and Seminole Tribe for Hard Rock) take dividends based on % owned.

For purposes of a survey like this though, Universal would include the hotel employees in the overall count for UOR.

 

[Frank Drackman]

It's complicated, but neither Universal nor Loews keeps the hotel employees in their headcount because the hotels are all joint ventures and neither consolidates them in their balance sheet. Loews takes a management fee and both Universal/Loews (and Seminole Tribe for Hard Rock) take dividends based on % owned.

For purposes of a survey like this though, Universal would include the hotel employees in the overall count for UOR.

When they were building CBBR, I read an article that claimed UNI is 25%, Chief Billie is 25%, and Loews is 50%...I have no clue why Hard Rock would have a piece of the other hotels, but it is what the article claimed...I think when the tribe bought out the Hard Rock chain, that seems to be around when the HRH stopped given Loews First points and switched to HR loyalty points.

No clue if any of it is accurate nor if things changed with SF and the others that are coming up though.

I do know the hotels have some UNI employees though...like security, the ticket desk....my guess is that UNI folks work the food court at CBBR....but I know hotel staff have told me they work for Loews...but I also spoke to a UNI employee that arranges group sales/meetings for the hotels so it does seem as if it is very much a joint operation.

 

[zg44]

When they were building CBBR, I read an article that claimed UNI is 25%, Chief Billie is 25%, and Loews is 50%...I have no clue why Hard Rock would have a piece of the other hotels, but it is what the article claimed...I think when the tribe bought out the Hard Rock chain, that seems to be around when the HRH stopped given Loews First points and switched to HR loyalty points.

No clue if any of it is accurate nor if things changed with SF and the others that are coming up though.

I do know the hotels have some UNI employees though...like security, the ticket desk....my guess is that UNI folks work the food court at CBBR....but I know hotel staff have told me they work for Loews...but I also spoke to a UNI employee that arranges group sales/meetings for the hotels so it does seem as if it is very much a joint operation.

Only the original 3 hotels (Portofino, HRH, RP) are 50-25-25 (Loews-Universal-Seminole). The rest are 50-50 between Loews-Universal.

As for which employees are which, it's complicated because the hotel employees aren't consolidated into the rest of Loews' Hotels operations. The employees' contracts are assigned to the joint venture in question. The Universal employees are all Universal now that Comcast owns all of UOR.

 

[Andysol]

I’m stoked. 100%.

Made a quick MS Paint mock-up of my concept, if anyone wants visual aid:

Does everyone get the gist of what I'm going for? Unlike the separated areas of Potter, a Middle-Earth land has the possibility to take iconic cities/towns/villages/etc and connect them with a cohesive, epic-looking landscape. If they pull it off, it could be one of the best and most beautiful themed lands in the world, IMO.

I don’t see them incorporating 4 areas. Not even 3. And remember that they don’t have to. Mordor, for example, almost assuredly won’t be a land. I’m sure we’ll “experience” Mordor. Maybe via queue. Certainly during a ride.

We might get just the shire as the land. And then “experience” Rivendell on a boat ride similar to Navi River Journey (except much better) leading to a grand reveal of Rivendell, etc.


Universal has done so much with queues- and now, interactive/queless queues, that they don’t have to put everything in its own land anymore and you can experience them via an incredibly immersive queue and attraction instead.

 

[Mad Dog]

I’m stoked. 100%.



I don’t see them incorporating 4 areas. Not even 3. And remember that they don’t have to. Mordor, for example, almost assuredly won’t be a land. I’m sure we’ll “experience” Mordor. Maybe via queue. Certainly during a ride.

We might get just the shire as the land. And then “experience” Rivendell on a boat ride similar to Navi River Journey (except much better) leading to a grand reveal of Rivendell, etc.


Universal has done so much with queues- and now, interactive/queless queues, that they don’t have to put everything in its own land anymore and you can experience them via an incredibly immersive queue and attraction instead.

or...to expand on your excellent boat ride idea...the boat ride could be a HE type experience and transports you from The Shire Land to the Rivendell Land......Of course there would be a land entrance to Rivendell also, maybe a mystical bridge across the same river.....and that solves a way to get rid of some of the water on the new property..........I'm still thinking at least two lands. The IP rights will be too expensive to limit it to one land. And then there's the profit potential of two lands with merchandise and food very different from one another.