Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[Mr. EPCOT]

I'll believe them actually outdoing TDS when I see it, but aiming that high at least means it'll be a great park. VB is the best water park in the city, IMO, so I'd love to see them improve upon it on Site B. I seriously doubt there will be any monorail, even though I know they want one.

I am skeptical, as well. Part of it is that I assume that this park would likely be very heavily skewed towards current IP, and I don't know that you could achieve something on the artistic level of DisneySea with just IP. It's certainly much more difficult with the IPs that are left to them that aren't already in use in other parks. So the question in my mind is, are they going to have catch-all areas like American Waterfront, Lost River Delta, and Mediterranean Harbor, or is it going to be Wizarding World Land, Nintendo Land, Jurassic World Land, etc.

I think we'd be super, super lucky to get a monorail. I hope they're able to pull off some kind of elevated transportation.

 

[zg44]

Generally, with both parties agreeing to mediation, it's usually an indication that they are close to an agreement. If they weren't talking and close to settlement, the parties just would have waited for next year's originally scheduled hearing.

I'd agree. It's good news.

If Uni gets the rest of this land...wow. They could make the original resort look quaint

Yeah, I think this means that Universal is planning on a larger transaction with Stan Thomas than the original proposed one before the lawsuit. Originally Stan Thomas was going to keep those 2 FQP parcels next to the 475 and 100 acres. But now that Universal bought that 100 acres; I think they're signaling a more comprehensive deal because that FQP land is needed now given that it's adjacent to both.

Of course, simplest solution is Comcast takes all of UCPM III and FQP, but we'll see.

 

[fryoj]

Yeah, I think this means that Universal is planning on a larger transaction with Stan Thomas than the original proposed one before the lawsuit. Originally Stan Thomas was going to keep those 2 FQP parcels next to the 475 and 100 acres. But now that Universal bought that 100 acres; I think they're signaling a more comprehensive deal because that FQP land is needed now given that it's adjacent to both.

Of course, simplest solution is Comcast takes all of UCPM III and FQP, but we'll see.

After looking at the property map, most of the UCMP stuff is useless. By that I mean its designated wetlands/water retention and right of ways. Stuff they really can't build on. The FQP properties are definitely beneficial. And I'd say that today's purchase is more of a sign that a deal is pretty much already in place for the other properties than it is leverage. I'd say they definitely get the FQP properties and the properties that surround the land they own already. Probably end up with all the random retention pond and wetland properties too. The one I'm curious about is the 179 acre plot on the other side of Sand Lake While not directly connected, one of the other UCMP properties would allow back door access to the new property. So I could see it being a remote hotel area line the WNW plot for Uni or I could see Thomas keeping that for development.

 

[GadgetGuru]

Pretty awesome news happening. I'm still convinced that this won't move up the timetables on Park 3 just yet. It's going to take a couple years of building infrastructure before they can really start construction on this third park.

Universal also will have to have a solid idea of what transportation looks like before construction really gets started. I can't see them effectively sharing public roadways for a resort-wide transit system. I just don't think it will scale enough.

 

[Mad Dog]

Niles is saying the purchase price for the 101 acres was $27.5 million. ...Not a bad price if true. That's the price of a cheap coaster.

 

[JungleSkip]

Pretty awesome news happening. I'm still convinced that this won't move up the timetables on Park 3 just yet. It's going to take a couple years of building infrastructure before they can really start construction on this third park.

Universal also will have to have a solid idea of what transportation looks like before construction really gets started. I can't see them effectively sharing public roadways for a resort-wide transit system. I just don't think it will scale enough.

I still don't think anyone should be expecting much in the way of transit, but that's a gut feeling on my part. There will be buses from the resorts to all other Uni locations, but I'm not expecting anything for day guests to get from the OG resort to Site B.

Niles is saying the purchase price for the 101 acres was $27.5 million. ...Not a bad price if true.

That's from the news stories on the purchase, so I'd assume that's legitimate.

 

[Joel]

After looking at the property map, most of the UCMP stuff is useless. By that I mean its designated wetlands/water retention and right of ways.

That's not necessarily useless, you can work retention ponds into the park's design. Where are the wetlands?

 

[JungleSkip]

That's not necessarily useless, you can work in retention ponds into the park's design. Where are the wetlands?

Yea, retention ponds and the like are going to be necessary. They'll have to reconfigure the large ones in the main plot of land as-is, so getting more included in the land to make bigger (or something) is a good idea

 

[ReelJustice]

Yea, retention ponds and the like are going to be necessary. They'll have to reconfigure the large ones in the main plot of land as-is, so getting more included in the land to make bigger (or something) is a good idea

Build a moat around the whole damn thing. Baller af.

Also, a lake for watersports and bass fishing!

 

[Mad Dog]

It's all coming together...............and, special thanks to Disney for D23.....:thumbsup:...more urgency now

 

[GoUCFKnights]

After looking at the property map, most of the UCMP stuff is useless. By that I mean its designated wetlands/water retention and right of ways. Stuff they really can't build on. The FQP properties are definitely beneficial. And I'd say that today's purchase is more of a sign that a deal is pretty much already in place for the other properties than it is leverage. I'd say they definitely get the FQP properties and the properties that surround the land they own already. Probably end up with all the random retention pond and wetland properties too. The one I'm curious about is the 179 acre plot on the other side of Sand Lake While not directly connected, one of the other UCMP properties would allow back door access to the new property. So I could see it being a remote hotel area line the WNW plot for Uni or I could see Thomas keeping that for development.

Interesting, didn't realize FQP was Stan Thomas too. Is Orlando Equity Partners LLC him too? It looks like thats the entity that has been selling off pieces (sold to Ripleys, Top Golf, Andretti Karting, etc) and is right in the middle of the other 2 pieces Universal owns. If its not, I'm curious why Stan Thomas hasn't been selling off pieces like that company has? The Ripley/Karting/Golf place kind of messes up Universal owning almost that entire side of the street. And I'd have preferred to see them on I-Drive, but I guess its too late for that

 

[Joel]

Yea, retention ponds and the like are going to be necessary. They'll have to reconfigure the large ones in the main plot of land as-is, so getting more included in the land to make bigger (or something) is a good idea

I meant like how Epcot's lagoon/SS lagoon is considered into the equation for retention ponds. Design them as part of the scenery

 

[zg44]

Niles is saying the purchase price for the 101 acres was $27.5 million. ...Not a bad price if true. That's the price of a cheap coaster.

That's way under what I thought it would be. (I thought the minimum price would be $50m).

That Ripley's plot on Universal Blvd. was $23 million for 23 acres last year.

Comcast/Universal got a great deal on the 100 acres if it was at a similar price to that Ripley's land. Yeah it's not off Universal Blvd., but it's right next to where the parks are going to be; I'm almost stunned at how low that price is.

 

[fryoj]

That's not necessarily useless, you can work retention ponds into the park's design. Where are the wetlands?

I probably used the wrong term as I guess wetlands are an actual thing, but I just meant existing ponds, creeks, etc. But I'm pretty sure they won't be able to mess with Shingle creek, and I'm sure theres a distance away from it that is protected as well. Theres also ponds that are surrounded by roads and properties they won't own. I fully expect them to redo the ponds on their existing property, but idk if owning other ponds will help that or if those are already calculated into otherwise developed properties.

 

[Mad Dog]

Orlando Sentinel story confirms the $27.5 million price. Says the agreement closed late last week.

 

[Bobharlem]

That's not necessarily useless, you can work retention ponds into the park's design. Where are the wetlands?

The wetlands are shingle creek, one of the more important ones for the everglades -- you can follow the wetlands area all the way to Lake Okeechobee., source is even further north (it goes right by Mall at Millenia and points north near John Young Parkway). That's on the eastern side of the land, and on the north side of Sand Lake also.

There's also the treatment plant between the creek and the new land they just bought. Basically the wooded area with the creek running down the middle is mostly wetlands, any development they do in that area will be extremely limited.

Lockheed moving (It's kinda getting choked out by tourist stuff anyway) would add another large area to it. That's less likely in the short term, but seems inevitable looking all around it.

 

[zg44]

Interesting, didn't realize FQP was Stan Thomas too. Is Orlando Equity Partners LLC him too? It looks like thats the entity that has been selling off pieces (sold to Ripleys, Top Golf, Andretti Karting, etc) and is right in the middle of the other 2 pieces Universal owns. If its not, I'm curious why Stan Thomas hasn't been selling off pieces like that company has? The Ripley/Karting/Golf place kind of messes up Universal owning almost that entire side of the street. And I'd have preferred to see them on I-Drive, but I guess its too late for that

Yeah Stan Thomas is Orlando Equity Partners as well; all those LLCs are vehicles that he moved land into... but he started selling off land a couple years ago after the foreclosures and whatnot. He's sold all but 18 acres of Orlando Equity Partner's original 125 acres; last year Ripley's took 23 acres for $23 million.

 

[fryoj]

Yeah Stan Thomas is Orlando Equity Partners as well; all those LLCs are vehicles that he moved land into... but he started selling off land a couple years ago after the foreclosures and whatnot. He's sold all but 18 acres of Orlando Equity Partner's original 125 acres; last year Ripley's took 23 acres for $23 million.

According to the OCPA site, they still have 32 acres. Not sure how up to date it is.

 

[zg44]

Given that price of $27.5 million (which is a very low $275k per acre), Universal was probably trying to close that purchase before the Stan Thomas-Universal mediation for 2 reasons: 1) whatever they pay per acre for the buildable land will surely be above that $275k per acre, and 2) to bring a much better price to the table than the Orlando Equity Partner (Stan Thomas) Universal Blvd. sales last year which were roughly $1m an acre.

For both of those reasons, Universal absolutely made a good decision to lock in that low price before they pay a lot more to Stan Thomas (if there is a settlement soon) because no matter what happens, it's a great price for that land.

According to the OCPA site, they still have 32 acres. Not sure how up to date it is.

Interesting, his site says 18 acres out of 125, may or may not be more up-to-date: Southwood Development Company, LLC

 

[GoUCFKnights]

Yeah Stan Thomas is Orlando Equity Partners as well; all those LLCs are vehicles that he moved land into... but he started selling off land a couple years ago after the foreclosures and whatnot. He's sold all but 18 acres of Orlando Equity Partner's original 125 acres; last year Ripley's took 23 acres for $23 million.

Jeez is absolutely amazing how one man can own all of that land in such a valuable area and still be going bankrupt... (I believe I read he just lost his jet due to non-payment on the loan a few months ago)

Is he LMC Properties too? That appears to be the last major land owner in the area outside of him and redevelopment. Also, any word if Universal is the theme park operator interested in the Artegon site and the property to the south of it? Thats another 100+ acres I believe.