Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[Viator]

The statement matches what we already know about that development.

It's interesting hearing about the cost of these plots of land as it's no where near as expensive as I would have thought. The cost of putting a monorail between the resorts would be more than buying all the land.

A question, how much did Hogwarts Express cost? Because if I would be wise to assume, wasn't that included with the Diagon Budget?

 

[Mad Dog]

I seem to recall the$450 million estimate bandied about, which included Diagon, Gringotts, HE (both stations). If correct, that was a heck of a bargain.

 

[bluetiedye]

Definitely WnW. Can’t wait to hear what they do with it. They’ve been pretty tight-lipped as rumors haven’t fully locked anything down yet. So announcement “in a few weeks” means we should hopefully be finding out a few days beforehand.

I’ll be curious if they go bus only for now as things are in limbo at park 3- although it likely won’t be by announcement time. Hopefully the transportation system is announced.

Interesting. Thanks for the additional background. That’s what I get for trying to go from lurker to poster without doing proper research.

 

[JoeCamel]

Interesting. Thanks for the additional background. That’s what I get for trying to go from lurker to poster without doing proper research.

Do not hesitate to post!

 

[Mad Dog]

Interesting. Thanks for the additional background. That’s what I get for trying to go from lurker to poster without doing proper research.

Welcome to the IU Forums. :thumbsup:

 

[zg44]

The statement matches what we already know about that development.

It's interesting hearing about the cost of these plots of land as it's no where near as expensive as I would have thought. The cost of putting a monorail between the resorts would be more than buying all the land.

Yeah, $27.5m for that 101 acres is extremely low for land directly adjacent to the main parks' land.

That's why I think they made sure to complete that transaction before they negotiate with Stan Thomas because he'll be asking for 4x as much for that FQP land nearby.

I expect the Stan Thomas settlement to be larger in $ than the current $157.5m that Comcast paid for the 575 acres. That just shows you how cheap they got the land.

 

[ReelJustice]

That's why I think they made sure to complete that transaction before they negotiate with Stan Thomas because he'll be asking for 4x as much for that FQP land nearby.

Universal is playing 400 dimensional chess

 

[Kevin38]

Universal has filed to build parking lot on one of plots of expansion land.(rumored employee parking)They turn new employee parking deck into New Hotel parking deck.H/P themed hotel with direct connection to Diagon Alley .Stairs to nowhere now go somewhere and the flyover bridge built above diagon explained.

 

[JungleSkip]

Universal has filed to build parking lot on one of plots of expansion land.(rumored employee parking)They turn new employee parking deck into New Hotel parking deck.H/P themed hotel with direct connection to Diagon Alley .Stairs to nowhere now go somewhere and the flyover bridge built above diagon explained.

The stairs to nowhere and the flyover bridge already have explanations. They're there to stock the shops smack dab in the middle of the land.

 

[Frank Drackman]

I only know what I observe. I don’t know the laws, I don’t know the markets. Down here, I see land that brings cows in from time to time....makes me think there are was to keep taxes lower on argricultre zoned land that you chang zoning on when you are ready to build.

To me, land is always priced on speculation. I assume the land is not worth much if UNI doesn’t build there. Last I stayed in the area, it seemed to me that the Hilton was the only place that fits/does well.

When I use to stay off site at UNI, the places that built to be next door, I don’t see that they have heat up with UNI’s growth and Comcast seems to know they can box a lot of the businesses out by offer an affordable family vacation on site.

Anyway...last time I drove Universal Blvd...it just looked like it would make sense to have a street car or something running in the center of that road.

 

[bluetiedye]

I only know what I observe. I don’t know the laws, I don’t know the markets. Down here, I see land that brings cows in from time to time....makes me think there are was to keep taxes lower on argricultre zoned land that you chang zoning on when you are ready to build.

To me, land is always priced on speculation. I assume the land is not worth much if UNI doesn’t build there. Last I stayed in the area, it seemed to me that the Hilton was the only place that fits/does well.

When I use to stay off site at UNI, the places that built to be next door, I don’t see that they have heat up with UNI’s growth and Comcast seems to know they can box a lot of the businesses out by offer an affordable family vacation on site.

Anyway...last time I drove Universal Blvd...it just looked like it would make sense to have a street car or something running in the center of that road.

A street car, large walkways with more pedestrian bridges, or anything to push back on the “car is king” feel. I’m a local and the main reason I dread the area is the traffic. I’d rather walk a mile than drive a mile down there.

 

[zg44]

I only know what I observe. I don’t know the laws, I don’t know the markets. Down here, I see land that brings cows in from time to time....makes me think there are was to keep taxes lower on argricultre zoned land that you chang zoning on when you are ready to build.

To me, land is always priced on speculation. I assume the land is not worth much if UNI doesn’t build there. Last I stayed in the area, it seemed to me that the Hilton was the only place that fits/does well.

When I use to stay off site at UNI, the places that built to be next door, I don’t see that they have heat up with UNI’s growth and Comcast seems to know they can box a lot of the businesses out by offer an affordable family vacation on site.

Anyway...last time I drove Universal Blvd...it just looked like it would make sense to have a street car or something running in the center of that road.

Yes, land is always valued based on the theoretical economic value that it can deliver when built (or not built). It's the same as how old farm land is sold for many times its value in South Florida to become new housing developments.

It's like when Disney started buying up land in Orlando, the earliest purchases were at $80 an acre and as the speculation rose that there was some major industrial figure hoarding the land, the price went up 1000x towards the end (especially when the speculation moved to Disney).

Right around the time Comcast bought the 475 acres for $130m, Stan Thomas started to sell off some of the lands in the Orlando Equity Partners unit; most of the sales were around $1 million an acre for the land directly on Universal Blvd. Ripley's paid $23m for 23 acres; Andretti Karting paid $8.4m for 9 acres. Topgolf's slot behind Andretti Karting was $7m for 12 acres.

You're right though that the real value is hard to unlock for anybody but Universal, especially for the properties further away from Universal Blvd. Even if the land is worth a lot more as part of the Universal Resort... well that requires the land to actually be part of the resort to be worth $2m an acre. It's like a "chicken and egg" kind of problem; the value isn't unlocked until it's part of the resort.

 

[shiekra38]

DisneySea is "only" 176 acres and feels way bigger than EPCOT. Personally I don't see them going bigger than that.

Edit: To add, most of Epcot’s acrge is taken up by World Showcase Lagoon, which is a pretty big waste of space. I don’t see Uni wasting prime real estate on that

Most of my time at Epcot is spent walking from one building to another...Also, you have to pass eight closed buildings on the way to the one that is actually open..

 

[zg44]

@fryoj

Okay, I figured out the discrepancy on the Orlando Equity Partners leftover land. Technically they still have 32 acres under that name, but nearly all of it is assigned to Trammell Crow for this project:
Trammell Crow Residential files plan for 656 apts on Universal Boulevard - GrowthSpotter

That's pretty much the end of Orlando Equity Partners' acreage then. So it's just the UCPM III and FQP properties at issue.

 

[Mr. EPCOT]

DisneySea is "only" 176 acres and feels way bigger than EPCOT. Personally I don't see them going bigger than that.

Edit: To add, most of Epcot’s acrge is taken up by World Showcase Lagoon, which is a pretty big waste of space. I don’t see Uni wasting prime real estate on that

How is World Showcase Lagoon a waste of space versus the giant lagoon in DisneySea? :huh::shrug_O

 

[JungleSkip]

How is World Showcase Lagoon a waste of space versus the giant lagoon in DisneySea? :huh::shrug_O

The Lagoon is like 1/2 the size at TDS. Also is integrated into the park, and you don't need to walk all the way around it to get from one side of the park to the other.

 

[Mad Dog]

If Universal did a Disney Seas type park (theme/size/immersion level/Universal type attractions), I might never leave Orlando once I got there. :thumbsup:

 

[tielo]

Thinking about it more, I have to think this is going to be the ideal list for Universal at once in the terms of the South initially..

• 1 Dry Park (with the size about 85 to 108 acres, heavily themed to Diagon/Disneysea level)
• 1 Water Park (with the size about 38 acres; and improving on the mistakes from Volcano Bay; and tackling a different theme)
• Large Entertainment Complex, with an overarching theme.
• Four Hotels, with one hotel being right next (or over the entrance) to the new dry park
• Transportation Hub with a parking structure of 7,000 parking spaces

Terrible idea. Disney learned us that having one park that actually could survive on it's own and 3 that never would stay open if they were on their own results in perceived value that fills up hotels and sells overpriced bad food.
The whole plot will have the same value offering as their current resort.

 

[Andysol]

MagicFeather over at Magic dropped these hints- said some were for Universal (and other domestic parks).

And now cryptic stuff that could apply anywhere domestically:
Winter is Coming... Eventually
Let's All Sing Like... Who?
33 Upcharges
The Not So Suite Life
The Not So Secret Life
Magic
Find your Way Black
Can you tell me how to get to Seaworld?
New York
I didn't Nintend to Infringe on your Ship
Needs More Cowbell

Assuming:

?
Tiki Room
Club 33
?
SLoP
?
?
?
?
Most curious about this one. Nintendo, obviously but Ship? The Olive???
?

 

[captainmoch]

"Find your Way Black" makes me think Sirius Black, as in Ministry of Magic, and I'm guessing "New York" refers to the potential New York area coming to USH with Fallon/Pets.