Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[princeinc]

Something I've thought more about is an alternate route for any elevated transit. Even though Universal Blvd. was planned with a good amount of space in the middle (indeed likely for an elevated transit option), how it was built and how it has developed since has either shrunk medians considerably or even removed them entirely, especially the northern half of the road. I actually think an alternate route that doesn't follow Universal Blvd. may be a more feasible/likely option, and here it is: A new addition to the parking garage hub of a monorail station (dual tracked, not closed loop, at least not at the current resort end, not enough room for a turnaround) basically covering most of the bus loop. The track would follow along the east side of Universal Blvd. to a stop at the WnW development. From here it would head south east behind the hotel through the current parking lot and "junk" land crossing Carrier Dr. and now running alongside Kirkman and crossing Sand Lake. Here's where there are two options for a route; either follow the west side of the Lockheed road and pull into the station in the middle of the south resort area, or you can follow the east side along the planned Kirkman extension and end in the same spot using a little bit less track.

Do you mind drawing a map of that?

 

[Teebin]

Well that's over simplifying the situation. The government of Jacksonville was warned repeatedly by Bombardier that the people mover technology they were using needed to be replaced because the technology is old, unreliable, and requires constant maintenance. The gov decided they did not care and just let the system slowly die. Bombardier does support their products, just not the ones used by a tiny singular inner city service that gets almost no riders in the middle of the most car focused city in Florida.

Gotta love perspective...

 

[devinp267]

Will be interesting to see what the third gate gate is going to be, and how long we have to wait before it's announced.

I think they should follow the same concept as IOA with the different lands. Too much Nintendo is going to be too much. I expect to see more contracts for rights being thrown around all over the place by summer.

 

[Teebin]

Wow, a month ago, I would have said this wasn't plausible financially, but it seems engineering has developed to the point that it is doable. That, and they would be building through developed land that has been scoped and prodded for decades, and not a bunch of cypress swamp like disney. Short of I-4 it is not much of a challenge.

 

[gator]

Short of I-4 it is not much of a challenge.

Well with I-4 under construction until 2021, now might just be the best time to incorporate a potential crossing into the still changing I-4 plans.

 

[maxairmike]

Do you mind drawing a map of that?

Here's a quick and dirty one I did just for basic illustrative purposes from the WnW stop to the south resort area (my name for the Lockheed land right now). Red is the first route option, blue is the second. Heck, you could make it a loop using both and just use a track switch system up at the current hub end. I'll probably end up making a nicer map version now that you have it in my head, but that will take a day or more when I have sufficient free time to do it.

EDIT: Obviously this is a little complicated due to the ramps for Kirkman/Sand Lake, but I expect that's an easier situation than dealing with the large intersections, narrow medians, and having to worry about ROW and set back rights if you use Universal Blvd./the land immediately next to the road. This is almost entirely self-owned land and overhead ROW with state roads.

EDIT: 2 I'm not even sure I-4 is that much of a challenge. I don't expect Universal Blvd. would get any wider, so really just a matter of the overhead ROW and being able to place footers for the spans in the median areas between roadways. Place the track at the same level as the road to cross I-4.

 

[blue180]

I mean, as to what everyone has been already stating, I feel a monorail-type transportation system is necessary and fundamental to their expansion plans. How could you not when you are gaining over 400 acres of new land? For the resort to have a cohesive, unified and connected park, it is 110% worth the financial investment to get it done right the first time. In my mind, relying on Buses, especially along that strip, would cause havoc and I feel like local businesses would be a bit annoyed with the increase in traffic.

I mean think about it....if universal has maybe 8-9 million visitors a year to its current parks(whatever it is), that comes about to roughly 28,000 people per day. not taking into consideration of the many variables such as peak dates, there definitely is more than 28,000 people on the resort at a given time I'd think. Say the average coach is 50 people...that would be 540ish bus trips a day on I-4. Now think about about 400+ new acres and the increase in attendance. It just logistically, financially and environmentally makes sense to not rely on buses.

I know that analysis is very loose/not statistically 110%(as its late), but you get my point

 

[Scott W.]

I mean, as to what everyone has been already stating, I feel a monorail-type transportation system is necessary and fundamental to their expansion plans. How could you not when you are gaining over 400 acres of new land? For the resort to have a cohesive, unified and connected park, it is 110% worth the financial investment to get it done right the first time. In my mind, relying on Buses, especially along that strip, would cause havoc and I feel like local businesses would be a bit annoyed with the increase in traffic.

I mean think about it....if universal has maybe 8-9 million visitors a year to its current parks(whatever it is), that comes about to roughly 28,000 people per day. not taking into consideration of the many variables such as peak dates, there definitely is more than 28,000 people on the resort at a given time I'd think. Say the average coach is 50 people...that would be 540ish bus trips a day on I-4. Now think about about 400+ new acres and the increase in attendance. It just logistically, financially and environmentally makes sense to not rely on buses.

I know that analysis is very loose/not statistically 110%(as its late), but you get my point

That's assuming of course that Universal don't build a second parking garage at the new land.

 

[Nick]

That's assuming of course that Universal don't build a second parking garage at the new land.

A parking garage over there would help sure, but the main point of having a monorail-type transportation system would be to "keep people in the bubble" like at Disney. There's so many tempting things on I-Drive, if you can direct people away and possibly even keep them without cars by starting their own version of Magical Express, I would think that would be their ideal scenario as it pretty much makes sure that people need to stay "on-property" for the majority of their trip.

 

[princeinc]

Wow, a month ago, I would have said this wasn't plausible financially, but it seems engineering has developed to the point that it is doable. That, and they would be building through developed land that has been scoped and prodded for decades, and not a bunch of cypress swamp like disney. Short of I-4 it is not much of a challenge.

I was thinking about that. I doubt they'll depend on their current I4 exit for the new land. They are currently widening 528. They can divert the traffic to 527 then either:
A: have them exit on the orange wood exit which is only one light away
B: have them come down John young then turn on destination
C: build their own ramp that would come up and over 528, Behind that gas station, and dump them right on the property.

I'll map it out later.

EDIT: I just realized that I was over thinking were the land was located. lol

 

[Mike S]

Something I've thought more about is an alternate route for any elevated transit. Even though Universal Blvd. was planned with a good amount of space in the middle (indeed likely for an elevated transit option), how it was built and how it has developed since has either shrunk medians considerably or even removed them entirely, especially the northern half of the road. I actually think an alternate route that doesn't follow Universal Blvd. may be a more feasible/likely option, and here it is: A new addition to the parking garage hub of a monorail station (dual tracked, not closed loop, at least not at the current resort end, not enough room for a turnaround) basically covering most of the bus loop. The track would follow along the east side of Universal Blvd. to a stop at the WnW development. From here it would head south east behind the hotel through the current parking lot and "junk" land crossing Carrier Dr. and now running alongside Kirkman and crossing Sand Lake. Here's where there are two options for a route; either follow the west side of the Lockheed road and pull into the station in the middle of the south resort area, or you can follow the east side along the planned Kirkman extension and end in the same spot using a little bit less track.

Could the monorail not loop around USF and IoA with stops inside the parks like at Disneyland? Is there space for stations in Springfield and Jurassic Park?

 

[princeinc]

Here's a quick and dirty one I did just for basic illustrative purposes from the WnW stop to the south resort area (my name for the Lockheed land right now). Red is the first route option, blue is the second. Heck, you could make it a loop using both and just use a track switch system up at the current hub end. I'll probably end up making a nicer map version now that you have it in my head, but that will take a day or more when I have sufficient free time to do it.

EDIT: Obviously this is a little complicated due to the ramps for Kirkman/Sand Lake, but I expect that's an easier situation than dealing with the large intersections, narrow medians, and having to worry about ROW and set back rights if you use Universal Blvd./the land immediately next to the road. This is almost entirely self-owned land and overhead ROW with state roads.

EDIT: 2 I'm not even sure I-4 is that much of a challenge. I don't expect Universal Blvd. would get any wider, so really just a matter of the overhead ROW and being able to place footers for the spans in the median areas between roadways. Place the track at the same level as the road to cross I-4.

View attachment 1410

Thanks for taking the time to illustrate that. I see the blue one happening more likely. I say that because most of that that land (sought of the interchange) belongs to Lockhead I believe and they might be able to get the rights to put a rail next to their perimeter road. That also puts the line to come into contact with the new parking deck (should they build one at Destination and U Blvd as I believe they would) without cutting the line through backstage areas like the red one does.

 

[maxairmike]

Could the monorail not loop around USF and IoA with stops inside the parks like at Disneyland? Is there space for stations in Springfield and Jurassic Park?

That would require park tickets to ride, and I think the most likely way something like a monorail or light rail option happens is if they can claim it is semi-public. A stop at the WnW development could definitely be pushed as a semi-public stop, and depending on location, the south resort area stop could be as well (as a connection to the convention center area).

 

[princeinc]

Okay. I had to rethink it since I was putting the land closer to the intersection of Destination and UBlvd. Red would be new overpass. Yellow would use the existing. I just don't think yellow would work because that would drive 1000's of cars right by apartment complexes, a college, and a competing hotel.

 

[Brian G.]

Please, I implore all to refer to the new land as Site B, or Isla Sorna.

 

[princeinc]

Okay, here's my thought process:

North Station would be on top of the South deck. The train would come down over the pond to give that Jurrasic World feel to it:

The train would run parrell to the interchange to avoid reengineering the bridge then jumps back in the middle of road before hitting the WnW station. It would then follow the median of U-Drive to Isla Sorna (@BriMan lol).

To avoid excessive cost and land for loops for the train to turn around, I love how Vegas does their monorails. They have switches at the North and south stations that allow the trains on both lines to switch whether they are coming or going.

I'd be happy to explain this process if someone needs me too. I just didn't want to insult your intelligence.

Forgive me. I love maps and images

 

[Mike S]

Okay, here's my thought process:

North Station would be on top of the South deck. The train would come down over the pond to give that Jurrasic World feel to it:

The train would run parrell to the interchange to avoid reengineering the bridge then jumps back in the middle of road before hitting the WnW station. It would then follow the median of U-Drive to Isla Sorna (@BriMan lol).

To avoid excessive cost and land for loops for the train to turn around, I love how Vegas does their monorails. They have switches at the North and south stations that allow the trains on both lines to switch whether they are coming or going.

I'd be happy to explain this process if someone needs me too. I just didn't want insult your intelligence.

Forgive me. I love maps and images

That definitely looks like the best path for them to take. Great job

 

[*Q*]

Could the monorail not loop around USF and IoA with stops inside the parks like at Disneyland? Is there space for stations in Springfield and Jurassic Park?

They want people walking through CityWalk. That's why the resort shuttles don't go directly up to the park entrance.

 

[Scott W.]

They also have to go through security too.

 

[Mike S]

Since Isla Sorna (lol) is big enough for more hotels, a new CityWalk, and both USF and IoA, what would replace WnW? Universal's own version of TTC? How much land is actually there? I could see a huge deluxe hotel working there. Maybe Biff's?