Universal Orlando Resort Expansion News (Part 2)

[Scott W.]

I think this is an extraordinarily optimistic view point considering Universal's track record.

I'm not saying they're going to announce every world, ride and detail.

All they have to say is that we're building a new park. I don't think they'd give a name because it can change but maybe the opening year would be nice and gives a huge window to aim for.

I don't think it would be any more specific than what they announced when they were closing DC for Hagrid.

 

[JungleSkip]

I'm not saying they're going to announce every world, ride and detail.

All they have to say is that we're building a new park. I don't think they'd give a name because it can change but maybe the opening year would be nice and gives a huge window to aim for.

I don't think it would be any more specific than what they announced when they were closing DC for Hagrid.

I just don't see them announcing anything until they absolutely have to

 

[shiekra38]

I'm not saying they're going to announce every world, ride and detail.

All they have to say is that we're building a new park. I don't think they'd give a name because it can change but maybe the opening year would be nice and gives a huge window to aim for.

I don't think it would be any more specific than what they announced when they were closing DC for Hagrid.

I think we have some time before that..They're going to promote their new offerings first and then announce the park as it gets closer

Just my hunch though

 

[JungleSkip]

I think we have some time before that..They're going to promote their new offerings first and then announce the park as it gets closer

Just my hunch though

If this is slated to open in 2023, I don't think we hear about it before 2021

 

[RFRees]

Okay, so in regards to announcements, they have technically already publicly announced two things: Steve Burke said they're eyeing another gate and they said Nintendo will eventually come to Orlando.

I'm betting we'll get more nuggets of info similar to the above but nothing in stone until much closer to opening.

 

[Scott W.]

I just don't see them announcing anything until they absolutely have to

It will be interesting to see what they do. How they announce JP might give a clue since it’s not replacing anything so they don’t have to force an announcement.

 

[Happytycho]

I thought that area was going to be saved for a future parking garage if they do decide to add a 4th park? I was leaning towards the hotels being to the left of the Kirkman extension.

This is the theory that I've been pushing. I would love for them to be able to use that land for hotels, but I just don't see anywhere else they could logically put parking garages if they want to do a fourth park. They do have a number of parcels to the west of Kirkman that could be used for hotels, and I think there are still a couple parcels that may be available from Stan Thomas' bankruptcy.

Of course, if a fourth park isn't on the table then I would certainly expect hotels south of Universal Way.

 

[JungleSkip]

I personally think the chances of a 4th park are slim to none

 

[shiekra38]

I personally think the chances of a 4th park are slim to none

Unnecessary in my opinion as the three parks can be an ever changing grouping of IPs with enough space to allow for a full week vacation

 

[Scott W.]

I personally think the chances of a 4th park are slim to none

I think it’s possible given the room but not probable.

I’d rather have 3 parks with the constant updates than 4 parks with the lesser updates.

Looking at the differences between UOR and WDW, 2 parks isn’t enough and 4 parks is too much.

3 parks is the sweet spot.

1 or 2 water parks? Who knows.

 

[ThrillRideLover3214]

View attachment 9371

Where would it be on this map of the universal expansion property list phase 2 property where a possible parking lot, another water park, and 2nd theme park in addition to fantastic worlds could fit if possible? I know you can’t circle the amount of property phase 2 has. Just asking out of curiosity those plans are like 2030 most likely.

 

[JungleSkip]

I think it’s possible given the room but not probable.

I’d rather have 3 parks with the constant updates than 4 parks with the lesser updates.

Looking at the differences between UOR and WDW, 2 parks isn’t enough and 4 parks is too much.

3 parks is the sweet spot.

1 or 2 water parks? Who knows.

I think there will definitely be another water park, especially since Volcano Bay is massively underbuilt and won’t be able to handle 4-6 or more new hotels that will come online the next decade

 

[RFRees]

One park was plenty in for Universal Orlando in 1990. Two parks was plenty in 1999. Three parks will be plenty in 2023.

Universal has essentially doubled their worldwide attendance at their parks from 2007 to now. Disney grew about 33%, which is neat, but not at the rate of Universal. They have unprecedented growth, with a worldwide economy that is only supporting the tourism industry (especially considering growing technology/infrastructure that is helping tourism, e.g. Virgin Rail from Miami to Orlando in the next few years). They would be crazy not to plan for a fourth park in the next decade or two.

Where would it be on this map of the universal expansion property list phase 2 property where a possible parking lot, another water park, and 2nd theme park in addition to fantastic worlds could fit if possible? I know you can’t circle the amount of property phase 2 has. Just asking out of curiosity those plans are like 2030 most likely.

Check the attached picture... the big gray spot is the planned parking lot. Some in this thread have theorized that eventually that parking lot would eventually be replaced by parking garages (as they had done previously at Universal Orlando). Note that they own some of the land surrounding the gray spot, possibly enough for garages. After those garages are built, they would have enough space then to build another theme park (gray spot = about 85 acres, Islands of Adventure = ~80 acres). Having a big flat parking lot would be a cheap first step to all of this, allowing them to gauge the success and see if its worth pursuing more expansion.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Any talk of a fourth park would necessitate average yearly attendance at both parks of 10+ million. Once that is reached and is sustained then a fourth park will be in the cards.

 

[RFRees]

Any talk of a fourth park would necessitate average yearly attendance at both parks of 10+ million. Once that is reached and is sustained then a fourth park will be in the cards.

I guess I don't understand this sentiment. I feel like 10 million may be a bit arbitrary. Has Steve Burke said this?

IOA was discussed and eventually built when USF had less than 10 million. FW has been talked about for years with IOA and USF less than 10 million. Beijing park #1 has zero attendance, yet has park #2 with a big plot of land dedicated to it.

And even if "10 million" were a significant rule: USF has surpassed the 10 million mark and IOA is just shy (9,550,000). When 2018 numbers are released it's very possible IOA climbs another 200k putting it at ~9,750,000, and with IOA opening back to back attractions and Disney's growth (e.g. Star Wars and more), 10 million is an easy goal. So based on this rule, I feel #4 could be in the cards, as the execs may already be assuming 10 million as their projected numbers.

 

[Nico]

Edited

 

[RFRees]

No one said we couldn’t discuss it. Joe said their internal number is 10 million and they will go for 4. That’s actually worth discussion. That wasn’t a “door closed on this convo” moment.

You're right, I edited my post to specifically reply to Joe rather insinuating anything beyond what he said.

I think I was replying not to Joe at that point but to others who have said other things elsewhere. This was my mistake.

 

[Nico]

No worries! But back to your initial point. I’m curious, if FW is going to be the biggest Universal Park, will we want to get greedy for the fourth? Or are we content with 80 acres from the paved parking lot? Islands seems like a pretty big park when you’re in it.

 

[RFRees]

No worries! But back to your initial point. I’m curious, if FW is going to be the biggest Universal Park, will we want to get greedy for the fourth? Or are we content with 80 acres from the paved parking lot? Islands seems like a pretty big park when you’re in it.

IOA is pretty massive and just imagine how much "bigger" it will feel when you don't have a large pond in the center. I really appreciate Alicia's overlay of IOA over the FW area in her video earlier this month.



But as large and far into the future as FW may be, put me squarely in the pro #4 camp (as long as the current tourism growth/trend continues). Something I feel Universal does very well is pair IOA and USF together; they complement one another extraordinarily well. It's a huge competitive advantage over Disney, where at Disney it's difficult to move from one park to another (and never mind getting back to your car you parked at Epcot when you're at Animal Kingdom). Compare this to Universal where it's a ~5 minute walk. I feel like it's a huge advantage that would be not be realized with FW sitting by its lonesome.


EDIT
Side note about garages/parking: they have two plots (15 acres / 20 acres) just south of the new proposed road Universal Way (just south of the proposed parking lot/entrance). Correct me if I'm wrong (I could be missing something), but these have not been designated for anything yet, and could eventually be parking garages.

Note that the current garages for IOA/USF occupy roughly the same size area (about 40 acres, give or take), and are also located across the street from USF/IOA (cross over Universal Blvd).

 

[Happytycho]

No worries! But back to your initial point. I’m curious, if FW is going to be the biggest Universal Park, will we want to get greedy for the fourth? Or are we content with 80 acres from the paved parking lot? Islands seems like a pretty big park when you’re in it.

I'm not sure there is goign to be an option to get greedy because they can't just make there be more land. The parking lot and surrounding land (excluding ponds) is around 115 acres, but I'm guessing they would want to get both a dry park and a water park in that space, so at best we are looking at about 30 acres for a water park and 85 acres for the fourth dry park. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to squeeze in another small hotel however, which could push the 4th park down to around 75 acres.

IOA is pretty massive and just imagine how much "bigger" it will feel when you don't have a large pond in the center. I really appreciate Alicia's overlay of IOA over the FW area in her video earlier this month.



But as large and far into the future as FW may be, put me squarely in the pro #4 camp (as long as the current tourism growth/trend continues). Something I feel Universal does very well is pair IOA and USF together; they complement one another extraordinarily well. It's a huge competitive advantage over Disney, where at Disney it's difficult to move from one park to another (and never mind getting back to your car you parked at Epcot when you're at Animal Kingdom). Compare this to Universal where it's a ~5 minute walk. I feel like it's a huge advantage that would be not be realized with FW sitting by its lonesome.

One of the things I really liked about the proposed idea of having a public "main street" and separately gated worlds is that once new parking garages were built, expansion would have been totally seamless. Each time they wanted to add a world they could simply extend the "main street" a bit to the east and add the new world with its own entrance.

Even without that, I do agree that it's really nice having a second park right next door.