Universal Great Britain - Speculation & Rumors

[EllieB]

On the topic of trains from Europe:

The Eurostar rival that wants trains to Europe from across UK — not just London

High-speed Uber trains could soon be running from London to Europe — but the dream is to extend services to every corner of the UK.

metro.co.uk

 

[rob@rar]

On the topic of trains from Europe:

The Eurostar rival that wants trains to Europe from across UK — not just London

High-speed Uber trains could soon be running from London to Europe — but the dream is to extend services to every corner of the UK.

metro.co.uk

I'm not sure that having international trains arriving in Stratford or Ebbsfleet makes more sense than the current Eurostar trains arriving in St Pancras if catching an onward service to Universal/Kempston is the intention.

 

[masekwm]

The title for the land for the junction brings in a load of other land, perhaps that is where the difference is:

 

[tommyhawkins]

I do wonder where the other 200 acres are, Broadmead Farm and the land strangely including BCA is 247 acres, I wonder if this part of the land, but I think this is all former pits and unlikely to be useful unless for wildlife rehoming if the other pits are to be drained as was the plan for the former business park.
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You can see it on the right of this photo.

Half that site is a Zone 2 flood zone similar to the very northern portion of the uni pit where the badgers will live, only not quite as serious

I was referencing the total Wandering Northern has said was the Core, Lake and West Gateway Zone together.

Either im getting deja vu (quite possible) or we've literally had this conversation before. The 700 acre figure was 150 acres short, which is what the land north of the slip road plot is on

 

[EllieB]

I'm not sure that having international trains arriving in Stratford or Ebbsfleet makes more sense than the current Eurostar trains arriving in St Pancras if catching an onward service to Universal/Kempston is the intention.

I get the feeling this company would just like to have an exclusive departure destination.

It's good to see that there seems to be a lot of appetite for multiple providers running trains through the tunnel though.

 

[rob@rar]

Either im getting deja vu (quite possible) or we've literally had this conversation before. The 700 acre figure was 150 acres short, which is what the land north of the slip road plot is on

Part of the land north of the Universal slip road, about 23 acres I think, is likely to be the subject of a planning application to Bedford Council from the AW Group, who are proposing the development of a solar farm, battery storage and a very large EV charging station with 60 high speed charging spaces. AW Group requested a pre-application screening from Bedford Council to determine whether and environmental impact assessment would be required alongside the formal planning application, and Bedford Council recently said that the site would not require an EIA.

 

[rob@rar]

I get the feeling this company would just like to have an exclusive departure destination.

It's good to see that there seems to be a lot of appetite for multiple providers running trains through the tunnel though.

Yes, competition for Eurostar would be a good thing, possibly from Uber/Gemini and Virgin Trains/FS Italiane Group. From the little that I've read, it seems that Stratford International Station is likely to be the London terminus for these services as it is already setup for international arrivals/departures, but this facility is unused. As you say, this would be an exclusive departure destination, with good onward links to central London, although not very convenient for visitors to Universal who would likely have to travel to St Pancras for a connecting service to the new Universal/Kempston Station. For those people, the existing Eurostar services would be a better option as they would arrive directly to St Pancras for an easy transfer for trains to Universal.

 

[tommyhawkins]

Part of the land north of the Universal slip road, about 23 acres I think, is likely to be the subject of a planning application to Bedford Council from the AW Group, who are proposing the development of a solar farm, battery storage and a very large EV charging station with 60 high speed charging spaces. AW Group requested a pre-application screening from Bedford Council to determine whether and environmental impact assessment would be required alongside the formal planning application, and Bedford Council recently said that the site would not require an EIA.

i thought the solar farm was going on the rubbish dump land

 

[rob@rar]

i thought the solar farm was going on the rubbish dump land

Not according to the documents on Bedford Council's planning portal. If approved and constructed, it will be on the parcel of land between the A421 and Universal's Core Zone, to the North of the West Gateway Zone that Universal will build the slip road from the A421. The solar farm won't cover all of that parcel of land, but a fair chunk of the northern end of it.

I have no idea who currently owns that parcel of land, whether it's AW Group or a different landowner working in partnership with AW. It's also very early in the process as the recent planning permission process was a pre-application screening rather than a detailed formal planning application. It might be just a bit speculative and they haven't yet invested much money in the project, so no guarantee it's going ahead. But there doesn't seem to be any indication available to the public that Universal are interested in that plot of land for future development of theme park related activities.

Edit: a bit of further digging reminded me of a link I posted last year, to an archeological study on the parcel of land north of the West Gateway Zone. The archeological study (see Fig 1) shows that that parcel of land is divided in to "CP Farm" and "Elms Farm". The land known as Elms Farm is where the proposed solar farm and EV charging station will be located, and I'm not sure who currently owns that land. CP Farm was being promoted for residential housing and the land is owned by O&H Land.

 

[masekwm]

This area is the area planned for the solar farm and charging station & Starbucks or similar, on the old A421

 

[tommyhawkins]

This area is the area planned for the solar farm and charging station & Starbucks or similar, on the old A421


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Right, my issue with this is, this really paints UDX into a corner with future expansion, although "12.5m a year" might be somewhat arbitrary, the park they're planning right now is half the size of Universal Beijing, and there's no way a single park will big enough, even if they eventually chop the car park in half and use that. So my question for the people that know the planning stuff better, can Unis plans supersede that Solar farm planning permission, can they compulsory purchase that land? I just don't see how this resort can grow in the future without that addition land, there's no obvious/idea alternatives....maybe the rubbish dump land to the south but not ideal

 

[masekwm]

But it's only 30 acres, so isn't going to make that much of a difference, the site is already pretty surrounded with warehousing and housing anyway so they're pretty much at capacity.

 

[rob@rar]

Right, my issue with this is, this really paints UDX into a corner with future expansion, although "12.5m a year" might be somewhat arbitrary, the park they're planning right now is half the size of Universal Beijing, and there's no way a single park will big enough, even if they eventually chop the car park in half and use that. So my question for the people that know the planning stuff better, can Unis plans supersede that Solar farm planning permission, can they compulsory purchase that land? I just don't see how this resort can grow in the future without that addition land, there's no obvious/idea alternatives....maybe the rubbish dump land to the south but not ideal

If Universal want the CP Farm and Elms Farm land the easiest way for them to achieve that is to make an offer to the landowners to purchase that land. National or local government can issue a Compulsory Purchase Order when it is in the public interest to do so, although I think public interest is normally defined in terms of infrastructure development, major housing development, etc, rather than a straightforward commercial development like a theme park. If a CPO is issued the landowner needs to be compensated at market value, which circles back to the point about Universal just buying the land in the first place.

If Universal were hoping that further land acquisition would happen by Compulsory Purchase Order I'd have thought that they would have included it in the Special Development Order planning application to the government? The SDO application is so wide ranging that including longer term plans for expansion by way of CPO land acquisition would have ensured a way forward for Universal, given that is certain that the government is going to approve their planning application. As far as I can tell, there's no hints that Universal is planning on acquiring that CP Farm/Elms Farm land, and there are active proposals for housing and solar farm developments, so I can't see that bit of land being part of Universal's future. Although having said that, so much of the work to date have been kept under wraps it's anyone's guess what else Universal might be planning beyond what has been made public.

I think you raise an interesting point about visitor numbers and park size/attraction count. As I understand it, Epic Universe is currently running well under the attendance that Universal is targeting for the park at Bedford, but despite having more attractions than we've guessed at for USGB's opening roster we are seeing extremely long queues in Epic's first summer season. Have to say, that makes me a little nervous about the kind of experience that guests at USGB are going to have if that park really is hitting 8.5m in the first year of operation.