Universal Great Britain - Speculation & Rumors

[Ludus]

I wouldn’t say the rumours are true but the document definitely shows the Eurostar going to Bedford… not sure how that would work at St. Pancras (trains would have to reverse out of the station to get onto the Midland Mainline to Bedford or a new track link would need to be built but this would bypass the station entirely).

Only thing I can think of is it will be a separate high speed service operated by Eurostar which requires a change at St. Pancras, although that would then be a connecting service and not direct as indicated in the diagram?

 

[EllieB]

Is there not the potential to use the underused Stratford International as St Pancras is basically at capacity now anyway for Eurostar services. And with new operators wanting to get into the game they’d have to use different stations anyway.

Ebbsfleet and Ashford are desperate for international services, they'd welcome any operator with open arms I'd expect.

 

[pbin]

Is there not the potential to use the underused Stratford International as St Pancras is basically at capacity now anyway for Eurostar services. And with new operators wanting to get into the game they’d have to use different stations anyway.

Using Stratford would be a good idea, iirc the main thing that would be needed is the fitting out of passport facilities - it provides a good trade off. The approach to St Pancras does seem a bit crammed for a rail link though… if they’re going to build that it’ll be very expensive.

 

[JT01]

I remember getting shot down on multiple threads when I suggested about eurostar, looks like its definitely being proposed

 

[bedfordmassive]

Might explain the £250m for Wixams - will need extra facilities for Eurostar (e.g. passport control). It’s too much of an increase in cost for moving from 2 to 4 platforms

 

[Altonsky]

Might explain the £250m for Wixams - will need extra facilities for Eurostar (e.g. passport control). It’s too much of an increase in cost for moving from 2 to 4 platforms

Well we all know with that project being government funded it’ll be 6 times the cost anyway.

But it would mean direct services between DLP and UGB would be possible.

I remember getting shot down on multiple threads when I suggested about eurostar, looks like its definitely being proposed

Same, but we only heard a small quote from that one MP or councillor, now we actually have a diagram showing it’s been considered (although I can’t find anything in writing on any document) it certainly gives more weight to his comments.

I highly doubt he decided to say that for no reason at all

 

[EllieB]

Well we all know with that project being government funded it’ll be 6 times the cost anyway.

But it would mean direct services between DLP and UGB would be possible.

They'll need to reinstate a Eurostar presence at DLP first...

I still feel in my gut that it's unlikely (I should really try to be more of an optimist, haha), but I would love it to be true!

 

[rob@rar]

This is what I'm expecting. Universal will want to present the least amount of detail that they can get away with to get the broad envelope of their planning approved by government, to give them as much flexibility as they get deep in to the design process (as well as keeping their detailed plans under wraps as much as they can to control the PR). For the government, I think they will have a statutory duty to consult on the environmental impact statement; they'll want to consider plans for transport infrastructure including local and regional impacts; they'll want to consider what the constraints will be on things like building dimensions such as volume, maximum height, closeness to site boundaries; site infrastructure requirements such as water, power, sewerage; etc. What I don't think we'll see will be ride descriptions, IP details, the stuff that we're all interested in.

And that’s exactly what we got. No details of specific buildings, just a set of design principles that Universal will operate within. Once they have decided what the actual building plan for the theme park will be I don’t think they even have to go back to the government to get specific approval, but will reassure government that everything they are going to do meets the previously approved design principles. Perhaps we’ll see specific drawings submitted for Building Regulations approval (with Bedford Council?), but from my reading of today’s application we might not even see that.

I think this is a remarkable piece of negotiation by Universal. The government seems set to approve a blank sheet of paper, subject to some general guidelines about the maximum dimensions for how tall and how big the buildings will be, in reference to the site perimeter and skyline. Obviously there are a bunch of other environmental factors which are dealt with in great detail through the Environmental Impact Statement. But it seems to me that Universal are being allowed to get on with things with very little direct oversight. As I said, that’s a remarkable piece of negotiation by Johnny McReynolds and his colleagues in Universal’s government relations team

 

[bedfordmassive]

Well we all know with that project being government funded it’ll be 6 times the cost anyway.

But it would mean direct services between DLP and UGB would be possible.


Same, but we only heard a small quote from that one MP or councillor, now we actually have a diagram showing it’s been considered (although I can’t find anything in writing on any document) it certainly gives more weight to his comments.

I highly doubt he decided to say that for no reason at all

It’s a large multiple of the local gov budget for the 2 platform plan.

 

[masekwm]

Might explain the £250m for Wixams - will need extra facilities for Eurostar (e.g. passport control). It’s too much of an increase in cost for moving from 2 to 4 platforms

Cambridge South cost similar, and you need to build the transport interchange at Wixams.

It’s surely a mistake on the plan as there is another colour in the key that isn’t used

 

[bedfordmassive]

Cambridge South cost similar, and you need to build the transport interchange at Wixams.

It’s surely a mistake on the plan as there is another colour in the key that isn’t used

Isn’t Cambridge South more complex? It’s on multiple train lines whereas Wixams is just on the one (East Midland Mainline) as EWR won’t connect to it.

 

[masekwm]

Isn’t Cambridge South more complex? It’s on multiple train lines whereas Wixams is just on the one (East Midland Mainline) as EWR won’t connect to it.

Cambridge South

 

[pbin]

Might explain the £250m for Wixams - will need extra facilities for Eurostar (e.g. passport control). It’s too much of an increase in cost for moving from 2 to 4 platforms

The cost is significantly more as they need to move the fast lines. The 2-platform plan saw only the up-slow (London bound) line being moved and a platform being slotted in between the up-slow and down-slow (North bound) lines, ultimately to reduce the cost of the station but also making it harder to expand in the future. The fast lines will also have to retain an alignment that allows 125mph running.

I foresee a lot of closures on the line in the somewhat-distant future…

 

[CoasterFan247]

I wouldn’t say the rumours are true but the document definitely shows the Eurostar going to Bedford… not sure how that would work at St. Pancras (trains would have to reverse out of the station to get onto the Midland Mainline to Bedford or a new track link would need to be built but this would bypass the station entirely).

Stratford aside, there's no reason a "direct service" can't reverse out of a station (CrossCountry for example operate a direct service that reverses in both Birmingham and Reading along its way), nor skip all stations along the way (for example the purple direct line on the diagram shows it passing through multiple stations along the way including in London).

So going into St Pancras and reversing out is a direct service. While the capacity isn't there now, St Pancras is intending to double its capacity.

 

[Viator]

delete--did some miscalculations on my end.

 

[masekwm]

A map in the planning documents seems to suggest Eurostar could run a service to Bedford from Europe, but no context is given to this diagram and the train operator has told the BBC an extension to Bedford was not planned.

 

[Altonsky]

It could be a completely new operator that has expressed interest in running that service tbh and Eurostar is just being used because right now that’s all anyone knows.

 

[Alicia]

A map in the planning documents seems to suggest Eurostar could run a service to Bedford from Europe, but no context is given to this diagram and the train operator has told the BBC an extension to Bedford was not planned.

I’m assuming someone accidentally let the cat out of the bag—or is making a fairly large assumption.

 

[rob@rar]

Slowly working my way through all of the documents released today, and one thing which has struck me is that it seems certain that there won't be a theme park '2nd gate' developed on the land that Universal currently own. No doubt there is plenty of opportunity to expand the main theme park over time, by way of pre-planned expansion pads, but nothing in the documentation suggests that a 2nd gate on the Lake Zone is a part of their thinking. This section from the volume 1 of the Environmental Statement (Chapter 2 - Description of the Proposed Development) makes it clear to me that the resort will only ever be a single gate destination:

A high level overview of the Proposed Development is described below by on a Zonal basis:

• The Theme Park will only be located within the Core Zone;
• The Core Zone, West Gateway Zone and Lake Zone will provide a flexible range of complementary ERC uses such as retail, dining and entertainment, visitor accommodation and associated services for any operational or administrative functions of the ERC, such as office buildings and warehouse/storage facilities;
• The Lake Zone also provides for the Utility Compound, and certain ERC uses that are only permitted in the Lake Zone such as the conference centre and/or convention centre, sports complex with indoor and/or outdoor playing fields, camping and caravanning accommodation and the Ecological Enhancement Area;
• The East Gateway Zone provides for an expanded Wixams Railway Station along with works associated with the Manor Road level crossing, supporting uses and transportation hubs; and
• The West Gateway Zone also includes a Highway Service Area.

Given the nature of the Proposed Development, flexibility is required in the consent to allow for the Site to evolve and expand over time. This allows for two separate types of growth:

• Theme Park growth and evolution in the Core Zone to accommodate increasing visitors and new creative ideas and technology improvements, to ensure that the Theme Park is consistently offering innovative, thrilling and popular entertainment experiences; and
• Build out of the non-Theme Park ERC elements, predominantly within the Lake Zone and West
• Gateway Zone, where visitor accommodation, retail, dining and entertainment venues will be
• developed and redeveloped over time.

To my reading this doesn't allow any wiggle room for post-consent development of theme park elements in the Lake Zone.

 

[Altonsky]

I’m assuming someone accidentally let the cat out of the bag—or is making a fairly large assumption.

It is a huge assumption but it’s definitely feasible if some operator/the gov wanted to spend some money to do it.

It’s also strange how that councillor mentioned it a couple of months ago and now this has popped up.

The first time I’d write it off, this being in an official document makes that a little bit harder.