Orlando Dreamers MLB Stadium Proposal

[mccgavin]

I'm guessing the only way Orlando gets a MLB team is if a buyer moves Tampa's team there. Two of the three lowest MLB attendance teams are in Florida. Tampa, even with its winning records, doesn't draw. Miami, with its huge market, doesn't draw either. No way MLB gives Orlando an expansion team.

It really comes down to the circumstances. MLB have stated they want an expansion team in the East and in the West by the end of the decade. While places like Nashville or a city in North Carolina seem like a better option on paper for the East, there hasn't been much of a push from any of them yet. The Mayor of Nashville has outright said he will not grant public funding for baseball stadium due to current Predators stadium renovations.

As of now, the Dreamers are among the most active groups that have a good amount of funding and resources to back them, only behind Salt Lake City and Portland (which are West). If the Dreamers are able to receive their funding request, and no other East city is able to match their proposal, I think they have a pretty good shot of being granted a team. It is also quite a different market than Miami or St. Petersburg, and I think an Orlando team could potentially have the potential to find success, especially with a boost from visiting tourists.

 

[Mad Dog]

Having a successful MLB team is tougher than most sports. There's not only twice as many home dates to fill than the next nearest sports game wise, they also play in larger venues than basketball or hockey. That's a lot of seats to fill and there's only so much money to go around for TV rights/penetration. They're kind of squeezed in there with Miami to the south, Tampa very close to the west, and Atlanta to the north. Chances are that one, or both of the Florida teams will object to a team that close to their markets. I would guess getting an expansion franchise is very improbable. Best bet is to steal the Tampa team.

 

[Legacy]

People also tend to forget the “Orlando metropolitan area” includes Lake, Seminole, and Osceola counties. So projected attendance based on that total is kinda deceptive. It’s possible people will drive from Lake Mary for a game… but will 45,000 (or even 30,000) worth of people drive all the way for that? Considering the average attendance for the entire league is less than 30,000?…

The other teams in the area don’t really garner a lot of optimism. The Orlando Magic averages 17,500 a game (Kia Center capacity 18,800). Orlando City averages 20,500 a game (stadium capacity 24,500). The immediate population used for those numbers is 300,000 (the city proper), which is probably more accurate. Now, sure, those numbers are still an improvement over Tampa and Miami, but not much of an improvement. And that’s with fewer games. Because the issue isn’t population. It’s access.

 

[MAC]

People also tend to forget the “Orlando metropolitan area” includes Lake, Seminole, and Osceola counties. So projected attendance based on that total is kinda deceptive. It’s possible people will drive from Lake Mary for a game… but will 45,000 (or even 30,000) worth of people drive all the way for that? Considering the average attendance for the entire league is less than 30,000?…

The other teams in the area don’t really garner a lot of optimism. The Orlando Magic averages 17,500 a game (Kia Center capacity 18,800). Orlando City averages 20,500 a game (stadium capacity 24,500). The immediate population used for those numbers is 300,000 (the city proper), which is probably more accurate. Now, sure, those numbers are still an improvement over Tampa and Miami, but not much of an improvement. And that’s with fewer games. Because the issue isn’t population. It’s access.

Yeah, I don't see many from Lake, Seminole, Osceola counties coming to Orlando to see many MLB games.

Clermont (largest city in Lake) and Sanford (largest city in Seminole) are 40 minutes away on a good day. Sanford would have to travel I-4 during rush hour to see a game.

Kissimmee (largest city in Osceola) is about 30 minutes on a good day and that's driving down John Young Parkway.

It's a ton of work to get across the metro area because of lack of access (as you mention) and traffic.

 

[Nick]

I don’t think the Rays will be able to figure out their stadium situation in all honesty so I kinda think that this isn’t a crazy pants idea. Rays would get their stadium, Orlando poaches the team.

 

[SkiBum]

I don’t think the Rays will be able to figure out their stadium situation in all honesty so I kinda think that this isn’t a crazy pants idea. Rays would get their stadium, Orlando poaches the team.

I agree. I don't think that the Tampa stadium issue will be resolved. Too expensive and no real place for it. Also, Tampa is in the bottom five teams for attendance. I have long thought that Tampa acted like AAA+ team. They have the third lowest payroll in MLB. The cities seem to be close to the same size but I think that Orlando seems to be more of the kind of city that will support a baseball team.

 

[Legacy]

I agree. I don't think that the Tampa stadium issue will be resolved. Too expensive and no real place for it. Also, Tampa is in the bottom five teams for attendance. I have long thought that Tampa acted like AAA+ team. They have the third lowest payroll in MLB. The cities seem to be close to the same size but I think that Orlando seems to be more of the kind of city that will support a baseball team.

Moving the team doesn’t increase the payroll, which likely leads to decreased attendance after the initial novelty of an Orlando MLB team wears off.

Even though the Magic/OCSC get decent attendance in relation to their stadiums, they’ve been performing better the last five years (thus, increasing attendance). Orlando City had a sell-out a couple of weeks ago, but that’s because it was Antoine Griezmann’s home debut. Before then, the last sellout was a game with Messi. When those teams aren’t playing well, attendance will drop to around 17,000 (bottom third of MLS). Magic suffers the same issues when they’re not a playoff contender.

(That’s not even counting the OTHER pro sports teams in Orlando, especially the Orlando Pride, that rarely break 10,000 at their games. And the Pride when on a historic unbeaten streak and won the NWSL Double a couple of years ago).

Would MLB fair better in Orlando? Little League is huge in Central Florida, which counts for something. Possibly, but if the Orlando Rays/Dreamers/Mouseketeers continue to be a bottom-tier organization, then the attendance issues will return within three years. Orlando supports winners.

 

[Mad Dog]

Moving the team doesn’t increase the payroll, which likely leads to decreased attendance after the initial novelty of an Orlando MLB team wears off.

Even though the Magic/OCSC get decent attendance in relation to their stadiums, they’ve been performing better the last five years (thus, increasing attendance). Orlando City had a sell-out a couple of weeks ago, but that’s because it was Antoine Griezmann’s home debut. Before then, the last sellout was a game with Messi. When those teams aren’t playing well, attendance will drop to around 17,000 (bottom third of MLS). Magic suffers the same issues when they’re not a playoff contender.

(That’s not even counting the OTHER pro sports teams in Orlando, especially the Orlando Pride, that rarely break 10,000 at their games. And the Pride when on a historic unbeaten streak and won the NWSL Double a couple of years ago).

Would MLB fair better in Orlando? Little League is huge in Central Florida, which counts for something. Possibly, but if the Orlando Rays/Dreamers/Mouseketeers continue to be a bottom-tier organization, then the attendance issues will return within three years. Orlando supports winners.

and...the more major sports teams you have....the tougher it gets for good attendance.........and selling those very lucrative luxury boxes......Another city that gets a lot of tourism, and has the type of weather that there's a lot to do, struggled to do well with three professional teams, and now has only one. San Diego.................Miami, another tourist destination has that problem also...........................

The mega population centers can support many teams. The moderate population centers often have issues when they have three teams or more.

 

[SkiBum]

I realize that ownership drives payroll but wondered if better attendance could change ownership's mentality. It's a different argument but MLB's expansion has not worked that well. Same with the NBA. The Nationals and Diamondbacks do okay every few years but the Marlins, Rockies, and Rays have not fared as well. Miami had the every few years when their prior owner would try to win before going cheap, including winning the World Series. The Rays had some really good teams that were built through good scouting but would start falling apart when it came time for new contracts. The Rockies had a few good years but have become bottom dwellers.

 

[jseal777]

Awesome when billionaires ask taxpayers to build their new stadium.