Halloween Horror Nights 34 (UOR) - Speculation & Rumors

[Neo]

It's actually not that crazy to suggest because theme parks literally already do this all the time. You don't see one single roller coaster car on a roller coaster. There are multiple cars to handle capacity. An even more specific example to match what OP was saying is quite literally Dumbo. They have two Dumbo rides identical next to each other to handle capacity. I don't see Universal actually going through with this with houses but it's not that crazy of a suggestion at all.

And also the idea of duplicates is an exact copy & paste, not an original and one subpar imitation. So it wouldn't be like having Tickle Me Elmo and "Bickle Me Belmo." It would be like having two Tickle Me Elmos.

But they don't for HHN. I'm not trying to be a dick with my response, but think about it. If the solution was this simple, and universal could make more money, wouldn't they do a "Halloween Summer Nights" or something where they could run the event from May - July, then have a month off to refurbish stuff and give scareactors a break.

And add to the fact of what the hot house is...the first Ghostbusters house was expected to have 3 hour waits each night and then didn't, so imagine if they had TWO of those houses, that were walk-on's throughout the event. That would accomplish nothing but pissing off us "hardcore fans" by only giving us 9 unique houses...as I'm sure the original hypothesis wasn't to have 11 houses, with 2 being the same....but rather having the main draw be duplicated. What would that be this year? FNAF? Terrifier? Fallout? The fact that nobody knows what the "new hotness" would be shows the flaw in the argument.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

A “dual-run” is a compelling idea, at least in its purest form—a single queue feeding two completely different houses (Dueling Dragons I don’t consider a dual run as it is mostly one house just with different concluding scenes). However, a dual-run suffers from the same logistical challenge as a mirror-build… the queue. It’s actually more feasible to add a whole new (different) house because mow you can actually disperse people throughout a new queue.

How does the queue inform a house's capacity? It's the same throughput for each house I would imagine, no? 1 Guest Per Every 3-4 seconds. I've always believed that was a "fixed" number no matter the house subject. (Genuinely curious here, not debating).

The mirror/double house idea would work well for a house like Stranger Things that consistently required operating the house for nearly an hour post-close each event night (and that's with guest balking at the posted wait times).

Obviously a whole new house will draw interest from guests, but would it? Genuine question since even last year Monstrous would see walk on waits when other houses were posting 60-90+ minute waits.

I'd also argue that "stretching" the locations of house entrance and dining outlets would also benefit the event before they do anything crazy like a dual house. (Like moving house portals back to Kidzone/DreamWorks to alleviate congestion in the NY area).

 

[Midnight Detective]

These are all interesting solutions but with addressing any problem it's important that the option taken works both to solve the issue not only in the present, but the future as well. With this in mind I think a straight forward way to address overcrowding without overhauling operations or needing an increase in budget would be for them to simply start actually killing people at the event.

 

[Tereglith]

I think a straight forward way to address overcrowding without overhauling operations or needing an increase in budget would be for them to simply start actually killing people at the event.

The Twisted Taters and sugary cocktails are surely doing the job, it's just happening too slowly at the moment.

 

[velocicoasterswife]

But they don't for HHN. I'm not trying to be a dick with my response, but think about it. If the solution was this simple, and universal could make more money, wouldn't they do a "Halloween Summer Nights" or something where they could run the event from May - July, then have a month off to refurbish stuff and give scareactors a break.

I would argue Fan Fest Nights and Horror Unleashed are both sturdy evidence that they actually do see the financial incentive in something similar to "Halloween Summer Nights," just not in Orlando specifically (yet).

 

[Chumpieboy]

But they don't for HHN. I'm not trying to be a dick with my response, but think about it. If the solution was this simple, and universal could make more money, wouldn't they do a "Halloween Summer Nights" or something where they could run the event from May - July, then have a month off to refurbish stuff and give scareactors a break.

? We’re not talking about how Uni can make more money we’re talking about how to improve house throughput and overall capacity.

Halloween belongs in the Fall. All of the parks are already stretching the holiday seasons as it is.

 

[SeventyOne]

It's actually not that crazy to suggest because theme parks literally already do this all the time. You don't see one single roller coaster car on a roller coaster. There are multiple cars to handle capacity. An even more specific example to match what OP was saying is quite literally Dumbo. They have two Dumbo rides identical next to each other to handle capacity. I don't see Universal actually going through with this with houses but it's not that crazy of a suggestion at all.

Yeah, I think this is true for attractions or objects that aren't fungible or experiences that guests can't discern between. The problem is that, as Neo said, guests would probably decide one of the two houses is better and either prioritize that or, worse, try to do both. If there was a way to build two houses with a single entrance and have guests unaware there were two experiences... maybe that could work? But it's the difference between building two McDonald's next two one another vs. having one McDonald's with two kitchens.

Dumbo a great example. An even more on-point one is the meet & greets -- low-capacity attractions with human actors. There's like four Ariels, and yeah, one probably more convincing than the rest, but every guest who goes through there thinks, "hey, I met Ariel." You just need to divert guests effectively, but Ops practically does that already by counting guests for Express.

Tired of cutting and pasting, but I agree with @UniversalRBLX, a second Stranger Things or 5N@F is probably going to sustain longer lines through the season v. an original 11th house. Or, as history has proven time and again, even a 10th.

 

[Neo]

? We’re not talking about how Uni can make more money we’re talking about how to improve house throughput and overall capacity.

Sorry to pull back the curtain and show how the real world works. I'm giving a real world view. If Universal wanted the most people to see the new "live action" How To Train Your Dragon movie, they'd show it for free. That would, undoubtably, generate the most throughput and capacity for that movie. But that's not the goal.

They're a publicly traded company with shareholders and expenses. Not a charity.

 

[Legacy]

Dumbo a great example. An even more on-point one is the meet & greets -- low-capacity attractions with human actors. There's like four Ariels, and yeah, one probably more convincing than the rest, but every guest who goes through there thinks, "hey, I met Ariel." You just need to divert guests effectively, but Ops practically does that already by counting guests for Express.

Tired of cutting and pasting, but I agree with @UniversalRBLX, a second Stranger Things or 5N@F is probably going to sustain longer lines through the season v. an original 11th house. Or, as history has proven time and again, even a 10th.

It actually isn’t though. An experience on Dumbo is identical regardless of the side you’re one. It’s the same program and the only (negligible) difference is your perspective of the same surrounding area. A meet and greet is a similarly, tightly controlled experience. It’s a single interaction that isn’t predicated on the sequential, physical movement of guests. Increasing the capacity of those experiences allows an off-set that does not fundamentally occur with haunted houses occurring in a congo line.

If you mirror build houses, the overall idea is to alternate parties between houses. However, even a “large” party of six people would maybe allow a “gap” of ten seconds between parties in a house. And a gap that small will immediately close because HHN houses require the congo line to push people forward. That means the line still isn’t moving any faster and the implied dispersion between two houses means you can just fit more people in a queue. If anything… it could slow things down more. It actually increases operational costs for no experiential improvement or diversification for guests.

 

[Chumpieboy]

Sorry to pull back the curtain and show how the real world works. I'm giving a real world view. If Universal wanted the most people to see the new "live action" How To Train Your Dragon movie, they'd show it for free. That would, undoubtably, generate the most throughput and capacity for that movie. But that's not the goal.

They're a publicly traded company with shareholders and expenses. Not a charity.

Don’t be dense and stop with the condescending tone. Of course there’s a profit motive. I was referring to the original topic started by @UniversalRBLX talking about capacity:

As wild as this sounds, I don't think HHN has a capacity problem when it comes to the haunted houses themselves... they have an issue with spreading crowds out throughout the event/park. Everybody wants to do the "E-ticket" IP house, so I think the solution is to create twin versions of the same house in order to satisfy demand for it whenever a big IP is utilized or have an even amount of popular IPs (which they've done in the past - and this year will be a perfect example).

 

[Neo]

Don’t be dense and stop with the condescending tone. Of course there’s a profit motive. I was referring to the original topic started by @UniversalRBLX talking about capacity:

Ummmm, OK. See my dense and condescending response to that post.

Sorry if you don't like my responses, but they they have legitimacy from someone with both a business and marketing background to the suggestions and/or questions being presented.

I'm just giving real world business responses to Joe Public questions suggestions that just don't make business sense.

 

[Lucky Planet]

I assume everyone's theoretical "crowding solution" with FFP is the one that most favors their visiting style, but in that self-serving vein I really wouldn't mind if the current FFP model was replaced by a "X nights ticket" where you can pick and choose your nights to visit throughout the season (with a reservation system if necessary). So instead of ROF/FFP/FFP+/UFFP it would be, at similar price points, more like 3 nights/5 nights/7 nights/Every Night (very, very expensive) to be used whenever you want throughout the event

This would suit three types of guests who are currently incentivized to buy some tier of FFP:

• People who live just far enough away in the outlying areas of the Orlando metro that it's not practical to visit more than a few times per season (this is me, 50 minute drive, I make it out 5-7 times per year but can't swing it on weeknights)
• Locals who want to visit more than twice, perhaps with different friend groups, but have busy schedules so don't need the optionality to attend every night.
• People who visit from out of state specifically for HHN and stay in a hotel for a few days or a week to hit the event multiple times, and whose current most economical option is buying a full FFP even though they're only trying to visit in a very narrow window (I get the impression there are a lot of people in this bucket on this board)

On the other hand, it would heavily disfavor ultra-frequent visitors who have Universal in their back yard and hang out there every night.

As it stands, I'm paying my $300 and going five to seven nights, while someone who lives next door pays the same $300 and goes for 40 nights. It doesn't take a ton of lifestylers like this to get a pareto distribution where a small percentage of guests are making up an outsize percentage of guest-hours without Universal necessarily making any more money from them.

With the way they're slowly ramping up the presence of Park Pass style nightly reservations, I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is the ultimate plan in the next few years. I'm sure it would cause great hue and cry amongst the core fan base, but if it improved the guest experience I'd selfishly be for it.

your idea could work for people out of Florida.

The mirror/double house idea would work well for a house like Stranger Things that consistently required operating the house for nearly an hour post-close each event night (and that's with guest balking at the posted wait times).

Obviously a whole new house will draw interest from guests, but would it? Genuine question since even last year Monstrous would see walk on waits when other houses were posting 60-90+ minute waits.

I'd also argue that "stretching" the locations of house entrance and dining outlets would also benefit the event before they do anything crazy like a dual house. (Like moving house portals back to Kidzone/DreamWorks to alleviate congestion in the NY area).

I don't know lol. think of some of the less liked houses from hhn like beetlejuice or Chucky.
would you like it if they had two of them?
imagine if we had two Chucky's
that would be Terrible lol. not only a waste of a house but potentially two houses you would skip on a second visit to the park. that could be terrible.

and even if they were going to do a 2 house of stranger things type deal, I would prefer it if they did 2 seasons ( 1 season each house) or let's say Chucky,
instead of a 2 mirror Chucky house situation, I would prefer each house based on a different sequel.
( imagine if this year the mirror houses were 2 houses of 5 nights at Freddy's lol )

it's just not a good idea. could go really bad.

I would argue Fan Fest Nights and Horror Unleashed are both sturdy evidence that they actually do see the financial incentive in something similar to "Halloween Summer Nights," just not in Orlando specifically (yet).

I don't want haunted houses for summer, but haunted events or parties inside the park are definitely welcome. something else besides a house.
an indoor scarezone or a Halloween concert or something

 

[Jake S]

Sorry if you don't like my responses, but they they have legitimacy from someone with both a business and marketing background to the suggestions and/or questions being presented.

you could still probably stand to be a little kinder in your responses.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

If you mirror build houses, the overall idea is to alternate parties between houses. However, even a “large” party of six people would maybe allow a “gap” of ten seconds between parties in a house.

Just to clarify you’re saying the choke point is the entrance of the house? I’m still trying to understand the theory.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

You'd also inevitably start to hear which "side" is better - and one inevitably would be - creating a new kind of conflict if guests don't get to make the choice themselves.

I think the amount of people who’d even know there are two sides would be negligible to the point of not even mentioning them.

Again: from a resource and practicality perspective, this isn't feasible. You would essentially have an eleventh house (no pun intended given the Stranger Things example). It's a nice idea on paper, but there's a reason they only tried it once.

A duplicated 10th house that adds capacity to a powerhouse IP and allows more guests to experience a headlining attraction is more valuable than an 11th house that nobody would care about (see Museum last year for example).

If you mirror build houses, the overall idea is to alternate parties between houses. However, even a “large” party of six people would maybe allow a “gap” of ten seconds between parties in a house. And a gap that small will immediately close because HHN houses require the congo line to push people forward. That means the line still isn’t moving any faster and the implied dispersion between two houses means you can just fit more people in a queue. If anything… it could slow things down more. It actually increases operational costs for no experiential improvement or diversification for guests.

Why could you not just split the queue 100 yards before the entrance? Then you maintain a continuous stream of people just fine.

Sorry to pull back the curtain and show how the real world works. I'm giving a real world view. If Universal wanted the most people to see the new "live action" How To Train Your Dragon movie, they'd show it for free. That would, undoubtably, generate the most throughput and capacity for that movie. But that's not the goal.

They're a publicly traded company with shareholders and expenses. Not a charity.

This is not a very shrewd perspective from someone with a background in business lol. HHN is a profit center with 10 dead zones scattered throughout it. You obviously want to minimize the number of people in those dead zones so they’re out spending money instead. Getting more guests into a house isn’t about charity, it’s about getting them out of the queues where their wallets are being held hostage.

 

[Legacy]

I think the amount of people who’d even know there are two sides would be negligible to the point of not even mentioning them.

A duplicated 10th house that adds capacity to a powerhouse IP and allows more guests to experience a headlining attraction is more valuable than an 11th house that nobody would care about (see Museum last year for example).

Why could you not just split the queue 100 yards before the entrance? Then you maintain a continuous stream of people just fine.


This is not a very shrewd perspective from someone with a background in business lol. HHN is a profit center with 10 dead zones scattered throughout it. You obviously want to minimize the number of people in those dead zones so they’re out spending money instead. Getting more guests into a house isn’t about charity, it’s about getting them out of the queues where their wallets are being held hostage.

Conceptually, your image contradicts itself. Splitting the line at all telegraphs that there’s two houses. Everyone will know there’s two houses at that point. That will also adds a transition point that slows progress.

A single house build, and cast, will cost Universal seven figures in material and total man-hours. Doubling that investment in an IP in a way that doesn’t expand market value is not a shrewd business decision. The guests drawn to the IP and attending are already drawn to the IP and attending. Doubling the throughput of one house (in a risky, imprecise manner) doesn’t actually draw more people. It increases capacity but sacrifices the actual need for the increase. That’s why diversification is so important.

 

[Jordan]

But they don't for HHN.

They already have.

If the solution was this simple, and universal could make more money, wouldn't they do a "Halloween Summer Nights" or something where they could run the event from May - July, then have a month off to refurbish stuff and give scareactors a break.

No.