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Future WDW Additions/Expansion

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nick
  • Start date Start date Mar 6, 2023
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GA-MBIT

GA-MBIT

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #201
My preference is rolling announcements over the course of the next few years, Universal-style, as opposed to it all being dropped at once and then having to wait years to see it all come to fruition, as we watch things inevitably get budget-cut or just straight up cancelled. D23 is less fun for me when it seems like these announcements are still not actually guaranteed. Play Pavilion, Poppins, Spaceship Earth, Communicore Hub, multiple large elements of Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge. Fool me once, shame on me, yknow?

Sorry about the pessimism, I would love to be hyped for this stuff but I just find it a bit difficult at this point.
 
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belloq87

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #202
It's an ambitious slate if it's real (and all happening by 2030, say).
 
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Nick

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #203
GA-MBIT said:
My preference is rolling announcements over the course of the next few years, Universal-style, as opposed to it all being dropped at once and then having to wait years to see it all come to fruition, as we watch things inevitably get budget-cut or just straight up cancelled. D23 is less fun for me when it seems like these announcements are still not actually guaranteed. Play Pavilion, Poppins, Spaceship Earth, Communicore Hub, multiple large elements of Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge. Fool me once, shame on me, yknow?

Sorry about the pessimism, I would love to be hyped for this stuff but I just find it a bit difficult at this point.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about in relation to communicore hub? The New Epcot hub is pretty much fully done and absolutely quaint and a lovely place as a local to bring a laptop and just hangout while drinking Starbucks. It gives actual “park” vibes.
 
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Magic-Man

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #204
There's no way they announce everything planned for the future at D23, even if everything is locked in. I'm expecting Tropical Americas, the Test Track refurb, and maybe an updated piece of Beyond Big Thunder concept art. That's it. They haven't even announced details for Tropical Americas yet and that's the next big project to open.
 
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Tobias

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #205
GA-MBIT said:
My preference is rolling announcements over the course of the next few years, Universal-style, as opposed to it all being dropped at once and then having to wait years to see it all come to fruition, as we watch things inevitably get budget-cut or just straight up cancelled. D23 is less fun for me when it seems like these announcements are still not actually guaranteed. Play Pavilion, Poppins, Spaceship Earth, Communicore Hub, multiple large elements of Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge. Fool me once, shame on me, yknow?

Sorry about the pessimism, I would love to be hyped for this stuff but I just find it a bit difficult at this point.
Click to expand...

While I can totally understand why you're not hyped, FWIW in the case of SE's refurb getting cancelled/pushed back, I've heard multiple rumblings that might have been a blessing in disguise as what was planned was very much not it. Not really lamenting the loss of Poppins either as there's no teacups in the world that should have multiple pre-shows.

Nick said:
What are you talking about in relation to communicore hub? The New Epcot hub is pretty much fully done and absolutely quaint and a lovely place as a local to bring a laptop and just hangout while drinking Starbucks. It gives actual “park” vibes.
Click to expand...
@GA-MBIT can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what they're referring to is the Hub didn't turn out like it was originally announced with the big, elevated park/platform/whatever the heck that thing was supposed to be.
 
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Nick

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #206
Tobias said:
While I can totally understand why you're not hyped, FWIW in the case of SE's refurb getting cancelled/pushed back, I've heard multiple rumblings that might have been a blessing in disguise as what was planned was very much not it. Not really lamenting the loss of Poppins either as there's no teacups in the world that should have multiple pre-shows.


@GA-MBIT can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what they're referring to is the Hub didn't turn out like it was originally announced with the big, elevated park/platform/whatever the heck that thing was supposed to be.
Click to expand...
I mean, sure, but is that what we’re really going to moan over? The whole hub still looks great the way they did it.

Attractions getting cut are a bigger issue, but I’m willing to blame that on COVID and a greedy Chapek who didn’t want to invest in the parks and give them a chance here.
 
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SkiBum

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #207
wutisgood said:
Not sure what your opinion on Tom Corless is overall, but today his argument is that recently Disney has been responding already to universal with their recent additions from 2017 and also it takes a long time to plan rides so they are doing so now. One major park ride per park per year on average is not enough expansion for the Disney world resort even with no universal at all in the picture. Disney is already a park short or major expansion at every park operating and demand level NOW. Oh and he called people delusional for not thinking Disney is not competing because of not recognizing these too late additions.

Delusional is having your main competitor build an entire new park with NOTHING opening within the first year or two at best of their opening. That is not secret planning . That is negligence. When you give loyal customers a reason to look elsewhere with no competitive new offerings in the near term, you lose long term marketshare. Really no wonder he is back on the media list. He really just hated Chapek and now the rose colored glasses are back on. Disappointing.
Click to expand...

Disney's moves seem to always be responsive rather than proactive. They wait and do nothing until forced by UNI's hand. Then, they announce stuff that takes years to build and say, "Look at what we did and how awesome for you that we chose to do this." Meanwhile, families go to that other resort and see that there is more than one player in the Orlando game.
 
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GA-MBIT

GA-MBIT

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #208
Nick said:
What are you talking about in relation to communicore hub? The New Epcot hub is pretty much fully done and absolutely quaint and a lovely place as a local to bring a laptop and just hangout while drinking Starbucks. It gives actual “park” vibes.
Click to expand...

Tobias said:
While I can totally understand why you're not hyped, FWIW in the case of SE's refurb getting cancelled/pushed back, I've heard multiple rumblings that might have been a blessing in disguise as what was planned was very much not it. Not really lamenting the loss of Poppins either as there's no teacups in the world that should have multiple pre-shows.


@GA-MBIT can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what they're referring to is the Hub didn't turn out like it was originally announced with the big, elevated park/platform/whatever the heck that thing was supposed to be.
Click to expand...

Nick said:
I mean, sure, but is that what we’re really going to moan over? The whole hub still looks great the way they did it.

Attractions getting cut are a bigger issue, but I’m willing to blame that on COVID and a greedy Chapek who didn’t want to invest in the parks and give them a chance here.
Click to expand...
Tobias is right, I'm talking about the Event/Festival Center area and the other major changes that happened to the hub between announcement and the actual build.

My point isn't that I would've loved the Festival Center, or that the Hub as it exists isn't wonderful. Realistically, I probably never would've experienced the previous version, and the space is better used as what it is now.

The point I'm trying to get across is that regardless of the quality of the announcement, they chose to reveal and announce something that they knew could and would change drastically in the multiple years it would take to build. The same thing happened with TSL and SWGE, except I don't think those post-announcement changes made the lands better, far from it.

If they announce Tropical Americas, or a Villain's Turf expansion to Fantasyland, why should I trust that the concept art they reveal actually shows what will end up being built when Disney has repeatedly done the opposite over the past decade?
 
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HandsomePete

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #209
It’s as if there’s more to theme park development than just building rides.

HandsomePete said:
Also look at Google Maps around 5-6pm any day of the week and consider that expansions require finding all of the extra people who want to sit in this commute to make $18/hour:

IMG_0309.jpeg
Click to expand...

All of this extra development that Disney “should have been doing” all these years… where is everyone finding the couple thousand extra people needed to run all of that?
 
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Nick

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #210
HandsomePete said:
It’s as if there’s more to theme park development than just building rides.



All of this extra development that Disney “should have been doing” all these years… where is everyone finding the couple thousand extra people needed to run all of that?
Click to expand...
Easy. They'll just hire more DCPs who inevitably stay working in the parks long after their DCP is over. They have the space in Flamingo Crossing to build a second huge housing complex. If they build that they could theoretically double the amount of DCPs they bring in at any given time.
 
PerceptiveCoot

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #211
HandsomePete said:
It’s as if there’s more to theme park development than just building rides.



All of this extra development that Disney “should have been doing” all these years… where is everyone finding the couple thousand extra people needed to run all of that?
Click to expand...
Where is Universal finding all the people? This is an Orlando problem, not a Disney problen.
Nick said:
Easy. They'll just hire more DCPs who inevitably stay working in the parks long after their DCP is over. They have the space in Flamingo Crossing to build a second huge housing complex. If they build that they could theoretically double the amount of DCPs they bring in at any given time.
Click to expand...
Cursed solution.
 
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Nick

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  • #212
PerceptiveCoot said:
Cursed solution.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree and eventually it will backfire on them, but until it does they love riding the wave. DCPers love getting caught up in the "magic" and then moving to Orlando permanently and working for Disney full-time after. Disney loves the cycle they get from the program.
 
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OrlandoGuy

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  • #213
The last addition to Disney was the Epcot hub this year…the exact kind of smaller investment everyone agrees is necessary in rounding out the park. But let’s just say it was Tron in 2023; in the year between then and now, all everyone has said is “Disney doesn’t invest enough!” Now here we are, a mere one year later, with announcements/rumors out the wazoo, and everyone’s somehow unhappy anyway.

Thought experiment…since the last rumor dump in 2017, here’s how Disney has compared to Universal (only looking at Florida):
* 2017: Avatar vs Volcano Bay (I’d argue draw, but let’s say +1 Universal)
* 2018: Toy Story Land vs Fast & Furious (+1 Disney)
* 2019: Star Wars Land vs Hagrid’s (+1 Disney)
* 2020: nothing vs Velocicoaster (+1 Universal)
* 2021: new fireworks show(s?) vs Bourne (+1 Universal)
* 2022: Guardians vs nothing (+1 Disney)
* 2023: Tron vs Minions (+1 Disney)

So a pretty even “score” of 4-3. The quality comparison of each addition across years is debatable but the point is, it looks like both parks are adding at the same relative pace to me. Yes, Epic is going to be a huge outlier in that it’s a whole third park, but even half of these new rumored investments in Disney’s existing four parks looks at least respectable in comparison on paper.

I totally get if what’s coming isn’t your cup of tea (the current rumors I’ve seen dont really get me going, personally), but criticizing this next phase of additions as being not enough or too little too late just really jumps out as bad faith arguing to me.
 
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GA-MBIT

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #214
OrlandoGuy said:
The last addition to Disney was the Epcot hub this year…the exact kind of smaller investment everyone agrees is necessary in rounding out the park. But let’s just say it was Tron in 2023; in the year between then and now, all everyone has said is “Disney doesn’t invest enough!” Now here we are, a mere one year later, with announcements/rumors out the wazoo, and everyone’s somehow unhappy anyway.

Thought experiment…since the last rumor dump in 2017, here’s how Disney has compared to Universal (only looking at Florida):
* 2017: Avatar vs Volcano Bay (I’d argue draw, but let’s say +1 Universal)
* 2018: Toy Story Land vs Fast & Furious (+1 Disney)
* 2019: Star Wars Land vs Hagrid’s (+1 Disney)
* 2020: nothing vs Velocicoaster (+1 Universal)
* 2021: new fireworks show(s?) vs Bourne (+1 Universal)
* 2022: Guardians vs nothing (+1 Disney)
* 2023: Tron vs Minions (+1 Disney)

So a pretty even “score” of 4-3. The quality comparison of each addition across years is debatable but the point is, it looks like both parks are adding at the same relative pace to me. Yes, Epic is going to be a huge outlier in that it’s a whole third park, but even half of these new rumored investments in Disney’s existing four parks looks at least respectable in comparison on paper.

I totally get if what’s coming isn’t your cup of tea (the current rumors I’ve seen dont really get me going, personally), but criticizing this next phase of additions as being not enough or too little too late just really jumps out as bad faith arguing to me.
Click to expand...
I hope I don't come off as arguing in bad faith.

I believe Epic is a massive outlier. Not only are we getting a brand new theme park with 5 new Diagon-tier lands, but it is roughly a year away and could've arrived even earlier than that had certain world-wide events not unfolded. We have also seen consistent year-over-year revitalization in the existing parks even while they've been building the five new lands. Disney has their year-after-year lineup by strategically keeping attractions unbuilt until the hype and profits for the last attraction died down enough.

I wanna make it clear: If the proposed list is correct, that would be wonderful. It does revitalize the most major deadzones in the current parks for the majority of guests. Figment, Test Track, Dinoland USA, Animation Courtyard; while also expanding in significant ways with Beyond Big Thunder and the Lion King boat ride. I may not be incredibly excited for the specifics just yet, but the list is bold and once complete would significantly change the energy and quality of the parks in a positive way.

In my opinion, we should've been seeing these all open yesterday. And no matter how bold of a proposition it is, it's what is actually open to guests in the end that matters. I've been burned many times when it comes to Disney World announcements that arrive with significant cuts, arrive years after they reasonably should have, or never end up arriving at all. The parks need these expansions right now, so if we have to wait until 2030 to see this list completed, I will be disappointed. In my opinion, Disney can do much better than that.
 
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HHN Maddux

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #215
HHN Maddux said:
Pretty extensive and (if true) very promising list of what's coming to WDW according to one of their insiders:

Animal Kingdom: Indiana Jones Adventure, Encanto dark ride, Central American animals throughout the land Tropical America’s replacing Dinoland AND a Lion King ride for Africa, Zootopia show replacing “It’s tough to be a bug,” and a new night show with more fountains and drones.

Magic Kingdom:
Site work to begin shortly for what amounts to a Frontierland expansion and a new Villains Land the size of Galaxy’s Edge. Additionally, the Moana boat ride originally slated for Animal Kingdom will go in Adventureland between Pirates and Jungle Cruise. Tomorrowland Speedway will be different. Big Thunder Mountain receives an update. Stitch will not be in its current state for much longer. New Night Parade.

Epcot: Test Track redo opens summer of 2025, The Spaceship Earth update will likely be announced and will start once Test Track comes back online. I’d expect to hear one more announcement for EPCOT. Keep a close eye on the Figment project on Disney Plus. I've heard Inside Out.

Hollywood Studios: New land to replace Launch Bay. Rock n’ Rollercoaster retheme as well. Falcon mission update.


Simplified list:
  • Magic Kingdom: Moana ride in Adventureland, Stitch replacement, Coco ride for Frontierland expansion, Villain Land

  • Epcot: Test Track redo, SE goes down for its update when TT reopens, Figment possibly getting update based on D+ show or Inside Out..? Wording isn't clear.

  • DHS: Launch Bay removed for new land that connects to Sunset, RNRC rethemed, Millennium Falcon gets new missions.

  • DAK: Lion King ride in Africa, Dinoland changed to Tropical Americas, ITtbaB rethemed to Zootopia, new nighttime show featuring droids
Click to expand...
He also had some info regarding Disneyland and international parks, as well as clarifications on the WDW stuff:
  • Magic Kingdom - Tomorrowland Speedway will get update like DL, BTMR will get update, new nighttime parade is now a lock, and Stitch replacement will *not* be announced at D23.

  • Epcot - Clarified that Inside Out is not a Figment replacement, he's heard that it'll just have its own new attraction in Epcot's future. Also said to keep an eye out for one more Epcot announcement at D23 this year.

  • Disneyland - Avatar with unique River Journey using Shanghai PotC tech, Tomorrowland finally gets major overhaul with new Peoplemover, Hollywoodland replaced, Disney Springs-esque district expansion

  • Disney Studios - Avatar and Lion King land

  • Disneyland Paris - Soarin' 2.0, Indiana Jones Adventure, new version of Rise?

  • Shanghai - New Marvel land + Midway Mania

  • Hong Kong - Tomorrowland getting a new E-ticket, but won't be announced at D23
 
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OrlandoGuy

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #216
GA-MBIT said:
I believe Epic is a massive outlier. Not only are we getting a brand new theme park with 5 new Diagon-tier lands, but it is roughly a year away and could've arrived even earlier than that had certain world-wide events not unfolded. We have also seen consistent year-over-year revitalization in the existing parks even while they've been building the five new lands.
Click to expand...
That’s the thing with outliers, though…they statistically don’t belong in comparisons like this. The only thing Disney could’ve done to counter Epic is a park of their own, but that would effectively put them at nearly double the gates UO would have. It’s a tough comp to make.

GA-MBIT said:
Disney has their year-after-year lineup by strategically keeping attractions unbuilt until the hype and profits for the last attraction died down enough.
Click to expand...
That’s a popular narrative, but if you look at the additions each year for the last ~7 years, Disney has gone blow for blow with Universal and if one were to argue their additions were of higher overall quality, it wouldn’t be that outrageous.

GA-MBIT said:
In my opinion, we should've been seeing these all open yesterday. And no matter how bold of a proposition it is, it's what is actually open to guests in the end that matters. I've been burned many times when it comes to Disney World announcements that arrive with significant cuts, arrive years after they reasonably should have, or never end up arriving at all. The parks need these expansions right now, so if we have to wait until 2030 to see this list completed, I will be disappointed. In my opinion, Disney can do much better than that.
Click to expand...
I agree that if a bunch of this gets cancelled (tbh I haven’t even really fully dug into the extent of everything rumored or confirmed), then that’s a bad look. But, again, if we use Disney’s last big rumor dump as a reference point, then we have no reason to doubt (see again, the list of additions 2017 to present which, regardless of personal preference, is objectively significant), leading me to question where the skepticism is coming from. I get that maybe their announcement strategy makes things feel more spread out and sparse, which is why I outlined the year over year additions in my other post…because the facts don’t align with that narrative.

GA-MBIT said:
I hope I don't come off as arguing in bad faith.
Click to expand...
Nah, you’re my guy. I didn’t mean that toward any one particular person here…it’s more about the macro-level narrative that just objectively doesn’t make sense.
 
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I'm not as skeptical as some since I believe the parameters have changed considerably. The outsized hope for Disney + is now muted, the film division is in retreat, media isn't hot.....and it seems like Disney is finally realizing that their theme parks are the real cash cow, and they're going to invest in it so it remains a cash cow.
 
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PerceptiveCoot

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  • #218
I think that list is missing the Coco Carousel at AK, but as far as I understand, the carousel is a Coco "attraction" in the same way the Journey of Water is a Moana "attraction".
HHN Maddux said:
Tomorrowland Speedway will be different. Big Thunder Mountain receives an update. Stitch will not be in its current state for much longer.
Click to expand...
IMG_3401.jpeg
 
Last edited: Apr 6, 2024
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GA-MBIT

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  • #219
OrlandoGuy said:
That’s the thing with outliers, though…they statistically don’t belong in comparisons like this. The only thing Disney could’ve done to counter Epic is a park of their own, but that would effectively put them at nearly double the gates UO would have. It’s a tough comp to make.


That’s a popular narrative, but if you look at the additions each year for the last ~7 years, Disney has gone blow for blow with Universal and if one were to argue their additions were of higher overall quality, it wouldn’t be that outrageous.


I agree that if a bunch of this gets cancelled (tbh I haven’t even really fully dug into the extent of everything rumored or confirmed), then that’s a bad look. But, again, if we use Disney’s last big rumor dump as a reference point, then we have no reason to doubt (see again, the list of additions 2017 to present which, regardless of personal preference, is objectively significant), leading me to question where the skepticism is coming from. I get that maybe their announcement strategy makes things feel more spread out and sparse, which is why I outlined the year over year additions in my other post…because the facts don’t align with that narrative.


Nah, you’re my guy. I didn’t mean that toward any one particular person here…it’s more about the macro-level narrative that just objectively doesn’t make sense.
Click to expand...
I think the main element founding my skepticism is that I haven't been convinced yet that they couldn't have finished a good chunk of the post-Pandora expansions much faster than they did. Epcot Hub, Moana, Tron, Guardians, even despite the pandemic I feel like these were dragged out way further than was reasonable. I can certainly hope that this was simply a result of the Mid-Late Iger era where Disney was on top in every department and didn't have to work especially hard, and the Chapek years where cuts were felt across the whole company, but I can't expect them to speed up that process in the future when I haven't seen them do that in ages.

If they had finished the Post-New Fantasyland projects at the same level of aggression that Universal has worked to finish theirs in the same timespan, might we have already seen a number of these newly rumored additions breaking ground by now?

Maybe they have been more aggressive than I've given them credit for, but with Universal only having two parks and WDW having four, every Universal update feels way more substantial and comes in much better time. Disney dug it's own pit when it built DAK. I personally think they have, or should have, the resources to keep all four parks feeling fresh and updated even despite 2x the parks to work on. I would love to see the clear #1 most successful theme park company in the world act like they're #1 and leading the industry for once, instead of just reacting when the #2 or #3 get a little too rowdy with their Potter's and Nintendo's and such.

For a park as popular as Disney World will forever be, "Too-little, Too late" is practically not a thing. These updates are purely a good thing longterm, and I'm glad there is seemingly any movement at all. In my view though, WDW is playing catch-up to a number of their quiet periods, and that's why I say that even despite 10 years of upgrades the parks still don't feel satisfactory to me just yet. I just want them to be better sooner rather than much, much later.

To give credit where it's due, Splash Mountain has had a reasonable turnaround time and I'm happy to see the bump from October to July. That's a positive sign to me. And I wanna reiterate that Flight of Passage, Rise, M&MRR, Guardians, M:JoW, Epcot Hub have all blown my expectations way out of the water once I was finally able to experience them. Disney still has their groove, but they still fall victim to these long gap periods that make these additions feel few and far between personally.

I love these kinds of discussions, and I appreciate the kind sentiments. I hope my thoughts aren't too annoying or clogging things up for the larger community here, I am just rather passionate about these things and love writing about and discussing them. This'll probably end up being my last big post about the subject. My hope is that a good number of people here might at least understand my perspective, even if they don't agree. This is all in good fun in the end!
 
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T

Tbad556

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  • Apr 6, 2024
  • #220
GA-MBIT said:
I think the main element founding my skepticism is that I haven't been convinced yet that they couldn't have finished a good chunk of the post-Pandora expansions much faster than they did.
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This is the main point I just came in here to make. I fully believe these new expansions will happen tbh, but I get the skepticism some have.

Despite Disney adding a good amount of content in the past decade, as several have pointed out, almost all of them were bogged down in some way, shape, or form to the point where the construction has stuck in a lot of fans' minds. It was mentioned earlier, but Epcot was under construction for years on years doing the absolute bare minimum amount of changes. The end results were great, but it should've taken 1/4th of the time it actually did, especially when the park was left in the state it was. It's openly known that Tron was deliberately delayed for months at one point despite being a straight up clone. And so on.

The same goes for the cancellations/delays on things like Spaceship Earth. It was pretty much a given that they'd circle back to it at some point, but it's embarrassing to get everyone's hopes up and then just quietly shutter the plans. These things happening just once would be whatever, but it's been years of these tiny little frustrations building up to the point where I get why a lot of fans just straight up doubt Disney's abilities to an extent (despite not really being one of them). Throwing in the D23 blue sky "maybe we'll do this" faux announcements sure didn't help with building fan confidence either.
 
Last edited: Apr 6, 2024
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Reactions: OrlLover, UniversalRBLX, GA-MBIT and 1 other person
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