Epic Universe Ticketing Info, Advice, & Speculation

[UniversalRBLX]

To change topics- anyone know if the Mardi Gras food cards work at Epic this year? I asked because they did last year.

Yes, it's a standard food & beverage gift card. Only difference is that it has the Mardi Gras branding.

Pro-tip: If your local, purchase a few and just use that as a way to budget yourself for the year. Good for HHN and what not.

 

[Mad Dog]

[removed]

Interesting survey results that were removed....On a similar note they were only surveying AP holders at the gate after they entered USF when we were there. My surprise, when the girl said she had been doing the AP survey for a number of days and we were 'by far' the longest AP holders she had surveyed thus far. First year was 2011 for us. I would have thought there were a lot of longer term. When I mentioned the time line to her she said most were just a few years. I'm guessing Universal had a sign up explosion before Epic opened. Those might be largely disappointed if that's the case. Myself, Epic is a non factor in whether I have an AP, though it would be nice to have better access, though operational capacity is a problem for that.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Got an interesting survey today

Y'all gotta stop posting about the super confidental surveys!

 

[Clive]

Y'all gotta stop posting about the super confidental surveys!

Yeah, guys, very first window of that survey emphasizes it is "HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL." When it's marked confidential, we have to honor that. You can't discuss it here.

 

[RFRees]

Interesting survey....On a similar note they were only surveying AP holders at the gate after they entered USF when we were there. My surprise, when the girl said she had been doing the AP survey for a number of days and we were 'by far' the longest AP holders she had surveyed thus far. First year was 2011 for us. I would have thought there were a lot of longer term. When I mentioned the time line to her she said most were just a few years. I'm guessing Universal had a sign up explosion before Epic opened. Those might be largely disappointed if that's the case. Myself, Epic is a non factor in whether I have an AP, though it would be nice to have better access, though operational capacity is a problem for that.

I would guess COVID broke things up quite a bit (lot of people took a year off).

I'd also guess a lot of people flip from Disney to Universal, as holding both is quite expensive.

Edit
I want to clarify: I mean people swap between the two parks (possible even three parks if you include the handful of people who also might only hold a Sea World pass). I didn't mean this was only in the direction of Disney to Universal.

 

[Mad Dog]

I would guess COVID broke things up quite a bit.

I'd also guess a lot of people flip from Disney to Universal, as holding both is quite expensive.

I think it might go the other way if the Epic inclusion costs are unreasonably high, as I'm guessing they might be. . I'm also guessing that Universal is overvaluing Epic at this stage of it's existence.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I'd also guess a lot of people flip from Disney to Universal, as holding both is quite expensive.

BIngo. It's one of many factors the resort is having to factor.

 

[Skold]

Y'all gotta stop posting about the super confidental surveys!

I, for one, have taken at least *eight* "confidential" surveys, and I have only hinted at five of them here!

 

[Mad Dog]

I, for one, have taken at least *eight* "confidential" surveys, and I have only hinted at five of them here!

You should have leaked the F&F Supercharged one, then maybe they would have cancelled before it was built.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Not going into specifics, but it does seem like the resort is interested in overhauling the overall AP program, not just Epic. It's very clear that they know that once Epic is added to an AP program, it may drive attendance away from USF/IOA?

I'm all for an AP overhaul as long as it can provide more benefits and actual bonus gifts and discounts. A reward system that can generate attendance during quieter periods is a great idea to have attendance goes down for whatever reason.

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On Epic Universe AP-Inclusive Pricing, it'll be interesting to see how they price overall. Based on current pricing, we could see the following implemented (assuming no changes to the current AP program & pricing).

Epic Universe obviously demands a premium... but how much? Below are a few scenarios starting from the cheapest (add Epic to the current per park price) to doubling the price of the existing APs (doubt as this would eclipse WDW's current pricing by a significant margin).


I'd imagine the lowest tier price (Seasonal-Power) would be competitive to WDW's Pixie Pass currently priced at $469 while a Premier Pass with its premium benefits could compete with the Incredi-Pass priced at $1,549. Premier with Volcano Bay was priced at $1,095... so it's pretty close.

They key is where the Preferred and Power Pass lies between the two price points as they likely make the bulk of the pass sales.

 

[Mad Dog]

Not going into specifics, but it does seem like the resort is interested in overhauling the overall AP program, not just Epic. It's very clear that they know that once Epic is added to an AP program, it may drive attendance away from USF/IOA?

I'm all for an AP overhaul as long as it can provide more benefits and actual bonus gifts and discounts. A reward system that can generate attendance during quieter periods is a great idea to have attendance goes down for whatever reason.

-----
On Epic Universe AP-Inclusive Pricing, it'll be interesting to see how they price overall. Based on current pricing, we could see the following implemented (assuming no changes to the current AP program & pricing).

Epic Universe obviously demands a premium... but how much? Below are a few scenarios starting from the cheapest (add Epic to the current per park price) to doubling the price of the existing APs (doubt as this would eclipse WDW's current pricing by a significant margin).
View attachment 29386

I'd imagine the lowest tier price (Seasonal-Power) would be competitive to WDW's Pixie Pass currently priced at $469 while a Premier Pass with its premium benefits could compete with the Incredi-Pass priced at $1,549. Premier with Volcano Bay was priced at $1,095... so it's pretty close.

They key is where the Preferred and Power Pass lies between the two price points as they likely make the bulk of the pass sales.

You may be a wee bit optimistic. I would doubt any plan including Epic will be all inclusive days like USF & IOA since the operational capacity issues are so awesome. They can't handle a ton of guests at Epic. As I said before, I'm thinking that Universal is overvaluing Epic. It's a nice, very beautiful park, but not real 'repeatable' at this point of its existence. It could be a great park but it's, at the least, two or three high capacity E tickets away. I'm a huge theme park fan but the two days I did in November were really sufficient for a while....My curiosity was sated.....Right now, if I had $200 to spend on a one day Orlando ticket, I would use it on a MK,DHS, IOA, or Epcot ticket before spending it on Epic.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

You may be a wee bit optimistic. I would doubt any plan including Epic will be all inclusive days like USF & IOA since the operational capacity issues are so awesome. As I said before, I'm thinking that Universal is overvaluing Epic. It's a nice, very beautiful park, but not real repeatable at this point of its existence. I'm a huge theme park fan but the two days I did in November were really sufficient for a while....My curiosity was sated.....Right now, if I had $200 to spend on a one day Orlando ticket, I would use it on a MK,DHS, IOA, or Epcot ticket before spending it on Epic.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm onboard with the idea of Universal overvaluing Epic at this moment. Long-term, Epic won't generate that sort of premium demand. The pricing logic above is only referencing their current pricing logic.

I'm leaning more towards something in the $150-200 increase range so there isn't sticker shock.


Separate side note -

What about an Epic Universe AP Dining Package in the short-term? Would be useful to get bodies in the park when nighttime show debuts? A "discounted" dining package at Epic Universe that includes reserved dining at Atlantic or Blue Dragon with access to the rest of the park after your reservation? The restaurants will get busy, and you can at least satisfy APs a bit.

 

[Mad Dog]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm onboard with the idea of Universal overvaluing Epic at this moment. Long-term, Epic won't generate that sort of premium demand. The pricing logic above is only referencing their current pricing logic.

I'm leaning more towards something in the $150-200 increase range so there isn't sticker shock.
View attachment 29387

Separate side note -

What about an Epic Universe AP Dining Package in the short-term? Would be useful to get bodies in the park when nighttime show debuts? A "discounted" dining package at Epic Universe that includes reserved dining at Atlantic or Blue Dragon with access to the rest of the park after your reservation? The restaurants will get busy, and you can at least satisfy APs a bit.

I'm guessing they want a very premium price increase. They want sticker shock so few sign up. That won't fly except for a small percentage of AP's. And that might be intentional so they look like they're looking out for AP's, so they don't lose them, but they don't really want many to sign up for the park due to the capacity problem. I just don't see an all inclusive Epic access except at a very very premium price, if at all. I'm guessing your 'Double Current Pricing' on your chart is probably closest to what Universal wants for Epic, but on a non inclusive deal because of capacity problems..

There's no near term capacity solution, especially during the summer rainy season. They can't give access to a hoard of AP's. Real high Price is the main tool to limit that. Capacity is the problem that's not going away for a long long time.

And, a quandary for Universal is that WDW has some great new stuff at MK/DHS/AK that's not all that far away. Newness rules in attendance increases.

My future Epic plan: I'm kind of convinced there's not going to be a reasonably priced all inclusive Epic AP for a long time. So, once I decide I want to tour Epic a lot, I'll let my AP expire and just do a one time vacation and take advantage of all the various Epic included ticket/vacation plans that will remain available, in all probability, for the next couple of years. Seems that's Universal preferred way to sell Epic, and basically AP be damned, unless they're willing to sell their first born to get partial access.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I'm guessing they want a very premium price increase. They want sticker shock so few sign up. That won't fly except for a small percentage of AP's. And that might be intentional so they look like they're looking out for AP's, so they don't lose them, but they don't really want many to sign up for the park due to the capacity problem. I just don't see an all inclusive Epic access except at a very very premium price, if at all. I'm guessing your 'Double Current Pricing' on your chart is probably closest to what Universal wants for Epic, but on a non inclusive deal because of capacity problems..

There's no near term capacity solution, especially during the summer rainy season. They can't give access to a hoard of AP's. Real high Price is the main tool to limit that. Capacity is the problem that's not going away for a long long time.

And, a quandary for Universal is that WDW has some great new stuff at MK/DHS/AK that's not all that far away. Newness rules in attendance increases.

My future Epic plan: I'm kind of convinced there's not going to be a reasonably priced all inclusive Epic AP for a long time. So, once I decide I want to tour Epic a lot, I'll let my AP expire and just do a one time vacation and take advantage of all the various Epic included ticket/vacation plans that will remain available, in all probability, for the next couple of years. Seems that's Universal preferred way to sell Epic, and basically AP be damned, unless they're willing to sell their first born to get partial access.

I really like Epic. A lot. Right now, however, it seems very comparable to Animal Kingdom, in many ways my favorite Disney park - an absolutely beautiful park that suffers severely from underbuilding and doesn’t really encourage repeat visits. If Universal wanted to leverage Epic as a premium experience or even as an excuse to change the entire way APs or handled, it needed to be designed significantly differently.

 

[SeventyOne]

As I said before, I'm thinking that Universal is overvaluing Epic. It's a nice, very beautiful park, but not real 'repeatable' at this point of its existence.

From the perspective of the occasional guest, I agree, far too few rides. But EU also has more bars than rides. Throw in a slew of restaurants and places to explore and places to just sit and vibe ... highly repeatably for APs. Two different markets.

What about an Epic Universe AP Dining Package in the short-term? Would be useful to get bodies in the park when nighttime show debuts? A "discounted" dining package at Epic Universe that includes reserved dining at Atlantic or Blue Dragon with access to the rest of the park after your reservation? The restaurants will get busy, and you can at least satisfy APs a bit.

I like this quite a bit, a more manageable version of an after-4 pass.

Not going into specifics, but it does seem like the resort is interested in overhauling the overall AP program, not just Epic. It's very clear that they know that once Epic is added to an AP program, it may drive attendance away from USF/IOA?

I think the bigger fear is churn -- once many APs realize a full UOR AP is more than a WDW AP with reservations being an actual hassle unlike the Mouse, they take a year or two at Disney instead, or downgrade to Sea World. Corporate likely remembers when they announced Potter and AP sales evaporated for two years. As WDW and UOR become more comparable in price, they become more fungible to consumers.

 

[Casper Gutman]

From the perspective of the occasional guest, I agree, far too few rides. But EU also has more bars than rides. Throw in a slew of restaurants and places to explore and places to just sit and vibe ... highly repeatably for APs. Two different markets.

I actually disagree a bit here. I do parks the AP way - wandering, sitting, hitting a show - and I find the Studios are the best for that and Epic is actually the worst. The Mario/ DU side of the park is great but doesn’t offer much in the way of seating or out-of-the way spots and Celestial just isn’t all that interesting - until the foliage grows in it’s a lot of concrete. I don’t do bars, so perhaps that’s the difference.

I like this quite a bit, a more manageable version of an after-4 pass.


I think the bigger fear is churn -- once many APs realize a full UOR AP is more than a WDW AP with reservations being an actual hassle unlike the Mouse, they take a year or two at Disney instead, or downgrade to Sea World. Corporate likely remembers when they announced Potter and AP sales evaporated for two years. As WDW and UOR become more comparable in price, they become more fungible to consumers.

I switched from Disney to Uni around 2010 for a lot of reasons but price was a huge factor. With the inflating Uni ticket prices and ESPECIALLY with the utterly insane increase in hotel rates, I’m pretty close to switching back. That brings up a related point - looking at the discounts Disney is offering or just looking at the news, this is a terrible time for Universal to be playing with massive price increases.

On a related note, if Universal wants to charge a big premium for three park APs they absolutely must come up with a better transportation network for the resort and they must do it fast. Epic feels entirely separate, and that’s a big problem.

 

[Mad Dog]

From the perspective of the occasional guest, I agree, far too few rides. But EU also has more bars than rides. Throw in a slew of restaurants and places to explore and places to just sit and vibe ... highly repeatably for APs. Two different markets.


I like this quite a bit, a more manageable version of an after-4 pass.


I think the bigger fear is churn -- once many APs realize a full UOR AP is more than a WDW AP with reservations being an actual hassle unlike the Mouse, they take a year or two at Disney instead, or downgrade to Sea World. Corporate likely remembers when they announced Potter and AP sales evaporated for two years. As WDW and UOR become more comparable in price, they become more fungible to consumers.

Yes, on the churn issue. All of that really good WDW stuff coming up, if Universal AP prices are similar, or higher than WDW, and with AP Epic restrictions, I'd guess the AP current will move to the direction of Disney. Yes, Epic has those AP attractive bars, but there's no way they're going to give AP'ers unrestricted access to Epic in the near future, mostly due to the lack of adequate capacity. Perhaps in three to five years, but that's distant.

Now I'm curious. When we were surveyed at the park on our AP, I had Alene do the survey since I didn't have my reading glasses. I never bothered to ask her what the survey questions were. Now I will.

Bottom line though, I don't think Universal will offer an unrestricted AP, at a reasonable price, for an Epic included plan. But, on a brighter note, they'll probably keep the two park plans at their present cost so they don't continue to lose AP's.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Yes, on the churn issue. All of that really good WDW stuff coming up, if Universal AP prices are similar, or higher than WDW, and with AP Epic restrictions, I'd guess the AP current will move to the direction of Disney. Yes, Epic has those AP attractive bars, but there's no way they're going to give AP'ers unrestricted access to Epic in the near future, mostly due to the lack of adequate capacity. Perhaps in three to five years, but that's distant.

Now I'm curious. When we were surveyed at the park on our AP, I had Alene do the survey since I didn't have my reading glasses. I never bothered to ask her what the survey questions were. Now I will.

Bottom line though, I don't think Universal will offer an unrestricted AP, at a reasonable price, for an Epic included plan. But, on a brighter note, they'll probably keep the two park plans at their present cost so they don't continue to lose AP's.

The problem for Universal is that the longer they keep Epic an entirely separately ticketed experience the more it reinforces the physical divide that makes it seem like Universal consists of IoA and the Studios while Epic is something entirely separate that you do a couple times a decade. That’s not a perception Universal wants but unless they move VERY fast it’s one they’re going to be stuck with.

 

[Mad Dog]

The problem for Universal is that the longer they keep Epic an entirely separately ticketed experience the more it reinforces the physical divide that makes it seem like Universal consists of IoA and the Studios while Epic is something entirely separate that you do a couple times a decade. That’s not a perception Universal wants but unless they move VERY fast it’s one they’re going to be stuck with.

I strongly agree with you. Five weeks of vacation at Universal during the past 5 months and the impression we deeply felt was that Epic did not feel as if it was part of Universal. It felt more like those sometimes day trips to WDW we make. We absolutely love the North Campus. That's Universal Orlando to us. Just the other day Alene tried to talk me out of getting one day Epic tickets for the four of us (two grand daughters included) when we vacation in June. She says the park is just not worth all that money. My only argument back was that we already promised the girls, and they like Nintendo and Dragons. But certainly, her feeling has merit. Is Epic worth $800 (4 X $200) for a day, when you've already been there twice. No way.

Yes, Universal is in difficult situation with no real good way out due to inadequate park capacity until they build some new stuff.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I strongly agree with you. Five weeks of vacation at Universal during the past 5 months and the impression we deeply felt was that Epic did not feel as if it was part of Universal. It felt more like those sometimes day trips to WDW we make. We absolutely love the North Campus. That's Universal Orlando to us. Just the other day Alene tried to talk me out of getting one day Epic tickets for the four of us (two grand daughters included) when we vacation in June. She says the park is just not worth all that money. My only argument back was that we already promised the girls, and the like Nintendo and Dragons. But certainly, her feeling has merit. Is Epic worth $800 (4 X $200) for a day, when you've already been there twice. No way.

Yes, Universal is in difficult situation with no real good way out due to inadequate park capacity until they build some new stuff.

That boat at the north campus is such a HUGE difference maker. It essentially turns the complex into a resort. Universal needs to figure out how to extend that feeling to Epic, and I have no idea how they do that. It’s probably something they should have dealt with before the park opened.