Epic Universe Expansion Speculation

[Rhian]

View attachment 25844
View attachment 25843Soo as u guys can see there is an easy gate to bulid a portal to Zelda

We discussed some of this in another thread a while back.

Locations of aforementioned doorways for those who like visuals that we'll use to get into the future expansion area:

View attachment 24918

What I just realized is the small pyramid is directly over the large doorway which might be seen from inside the new land when it's built, making it a neat little design element to help find your way back towards the exit.

There's some good information following that post in that thread which might be handy for the current discussion here. The discussion focused on that plot being used for Luigi's Mansion.

I know there's excitement for Zelda to come but it is equally likely what you see represented in Epic is all we'll get. Unless something has changed, last time it was brought up it was mentioned the development for Zelda has stalled when it was rumored for Lost Continent.

 

[tommyhawkins]

^
^^
We gotta stop wanting the parks to be the "same" across the board. You want dark rides and entertainment/shows, go to universal studios. You want thrills and ex itement, go to IOA. Now, if you want a hybrid of both plus immersion out of this world, you to epic. The funny thing is most all non coasters at IOA are, in fact, dark rides. Kong, dark ride. Forbidden journey, dark ride. Spiderman, dark ride. Hagrid, hybrid dark ride/coaster. Ripsaw falls, darkride water ride. River adventure, darkride water ride.

As far as height restrictions, IOA is accessible to all families. Could it use a show, yes. I'll give you that. But to say it needs more "dark rides" is kinda a stretch when most all their rides have dark ride elements.

I want new rides of all shapes and sizes, EVERYWHERE, is that too much to ask???

One important factor. Universal states that 80% of all tickets sold (USF &IOA) are park hoppers. Lot of that is due to HE. Bottom line is that they're two parks, but they basically function as one huge park.

and when we reach full build out of Epic Universe with the internal expansion pads and additional 27acres, we will end up getting close to that equivalence. But I would like to see the additional park being built sooner rather than later, strategically I see no point of holding off 15 years, they can afford to be bullish

 

[rhino4evr]

The more I think about it , the more it makes sense that this expansion will be Zelda alone. Luigi is technically already represented in Mario World. There is no real reason you would leave donkey Kong and then go back into another Mario inspired land.

I do wonder if the Zelda area will have it own portal though. I could see it being an additional 2 way exit , instead.

 

[amar831]

I know this is more blue sky than actual Epic expansion talk, but I think there’s a sliver of a chance that with all this talk of Wicked, Zelda, lord of the rings, that they might not just decide to throw all of those into a NEW park? I mean SNW was replacing Kidzone until they made the call to make it a headliner for Epic.

 

[TheUniC6]

I know this is more blue sky than actual Epic expansion talk, but I think there’s a sliver of a chance that with all this talk of Wicked, Zelda, lord of the rings, that they might not just decide to throw all of those into a NEW park? I mean SNW was replacing Kidzone until they made the call to make it a headliner for Epic.

I think there was some chatter about Zelda going into the Nintendo expansion pad. As for Wicked and LOTR, they wouldn't put both in EU because there would be too much overlap IMO. I think Wicked will go into IOA and LOTR will be EU.

 

[rhino4evr]

I know this is more blue sky than actual Epic expansion talk, but I think there’s a sliver of a chance that with all this talk of Wicked, Zelda, lord of the rings, that they might not just decide to throw all of those into a NEW park? I mean SNW was replacing Kidzone until they made the call to make it a headliner for Epic.

Wait a new park ? Ha ha. Not a chance.
Given that Zelda references are prominently displayed in EPIC, it’s almost guaranteed at this point.

I still don’t think a Wicked land makes a lot of sense, but I realize I’m in the minority , at least on these boards .

 

[mccgavin]

I still don’t think a Wicked land makes a lot of sense, but I realize I’m in the minority , at least on these boards .

It's an in-house IP based on a successful franchise that appeals to a target demographic that isn't well represented at the resort right now.

That said... Wicked wouldn't do much for me personally.

 

[quinnmac000]

IP alone doesn't dictate how great a land or attraction will be, it only dictates your initial interest in it. Looking at the evolution of thoughts involving people's perception of what area they would like and dislike the most for Epic Universe, there was a trend of the mood consistently shifting as new information came out. So whereas its easy to say, oh this IP is not going to do much for me, it is unknown the level of execution and the level of care the creative team will provide. And just for reference i still need to point out, Waterworld which is one of Universal's worst film flops with no fanbase culture whatsoever has one of the best attractions whereas Universal's highest grossing IP (Fast and Furious) with many fans has a universally hated attraction.

Going into the speculated IPs, each have their strengths of their faults.

Lord of the Rings is a great IP but I don't think its good for a theme park land at Epic Universe. Using material that is provided by the film, you mainly have two ride options: mine train through the Mines of Moria (the feel is already similar to Gringotts) and the dwarves barrel ride down the river. The environment is realistic fantasy and doesn't go into the whimsy making a lot of areas not going to meet that mark of joy and wonderment showcased in areas such as Super Nintendo World. Additionally, I would argue aside from Hobbiton at Night, there is a lack of kinetic energy that matches the other lands within Epic Universe. Making a cohesive land giving the IP and the fans the proper respect they deserve is something I can not see. LOTR also doesn't have a JKR like figure who will tell Universal do more/do better.

This is where Legend of Zelda is more suitable for Epic Universe, the environments are colorful, there is so much kinetic energy within most areas and because there are so many games and versions of the world to chose from, it allows Universal to play and discover more things. The games have something for everyone from the cartoony Windwaker to the dark and dusk Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. The weakness when it comes to the Legend of Zelda is related to the neutering of potential for the attractions to meet Nintendo's wants and needs. One rumor of why Mario Kart is the way it is was due to what Nintendo wanted, to create a land that the smallest and the oldest could all enjoy together which is what we got. There is no reason though to not believe Nintendo may require Universal the same limitations for Legend of Zelda which can impact the potential.

Wicked/Oz has the most unrealized potential but the greatest risk. Just looking at the One Short Day sequence from Wicked of the Emerald City, there is so much kinetic energy that even if they just rebuild the set it would have the same feel as Diagon Alley. Having Wicked will also allow universal to make a Tokyo Disney resort level traditional dark ride like Anna and Elsa's Frozen Adventure and the Beauty and the Beast ride as the film is very fitting of the renaissance Disney. However, the truth is this, Universal Parks current audience in Orlando skews male, and the audience most enjoy nerdcore IP which Wicked doesn't fit entirely into, and rather than trying to enjoy it most likely will bypass the land without giving it a fair chance. We saw it first hand with the hello kitty store closing in Florida after flopping hard; yet in California the Sanrio store is thriving immensely. For Universal, with this IP likely remaining active for a decent amount of time with Universal owning the stage show (which they seem to be thinking a revamp for) and still making massive amounts of money, a massive merch mover for brand opportunities for Universal, and one of the few IPs Universal owns that is still 4 quadrant but female leaning, it is likely they would do the work to make this land something worthwhile (unlike Fast and Furious which they massively had a build it and people will come approach. However, likewise knowing the male skewing audience of the parks and their opinions, Universal may cheap out and not give it the proper dues and respect causing the land to not reach its proper level making it not defy gravity nor making it popular. Just a place people have a lot of loathing for.

 

[mccgavin]

The weakness when it comes to the Legend of Zelda is related to the neutering of potential for the attractions to meet Nintendo's wants and needs. One rumor of why Mario Kart is the way it is was due to what Nintendo wanted, to create a land that the smallest and the oldest could all enjoy together which is what we got. There is no reason though to not believe Nintendo may require Universal the same limitations for Legend of Zelda which can impact the potential.

I mean, was this really a bad decision? Mario is absolutely a family friendly IP, and creating rides that are inaccessible to smaller children and those who prefer gentler rides could've been a bad move that may have limited the land's appeal to its target demographic.

That being said, Zelda could definitely work with a more thrilling ride system, as its audience generally skews older than Mario.

However, the truth is this, Universal Parks current audience in Orlando skews male, and the audience most enjoy nerdcore IP which Wicked doesn't fit entirely into, and rather than trying to enjoy it most likely will bypass the land without giving it a fair chance. We saw it first hand with the hello kitty store closing in Florida after flopping hard; yet in California the Sanrio store is thriving immensely. For Universal, with this IP likely remaining active for a decent amount of time with Universal owning the stage show (which they seem to be thinking a revamp for) and still making massive amounts of money, a massive merch mover for brand opportunities for Universal, and one of the few IPs Universal owns that is still 4 quadrant but female leaning, it is likely they would do the work to make this land something worthwhile (unlike Fast and Furious which they massively had a build it and people will come approach. However, likewise knowing the male skewing audience of the parks and their opinions, Universal may cheap out and not give it the proper dues and respect causing the land to not reach its proper level making it not defy gravity nor making it popular. Just a place people have a lot of loathing for.

Personally, I feel like it is in Universal's best interest to diversify its offerings, attracting a wide variety of different audiences. Hello Kitty wasn't a hit in Orlando, but I don't think that should be treated as substantial evidence that something like Wicked couldn't work, especially since the demographics of both fandoms don't exactly align.

I have no actual information on the sales of Wicked merchandise within the park, but it at least appears that it has been selling incredibly well. Only Universal has the actual numbers, and that along with performance of Wicked For Good in theaters will likely determine if they are confident enough to build a permanent land or attraction.

 

[tommyhawkins]

I know this is more blue sky than actual Epic expansion talk, but I think there’s a sliver of a chance that with all this talk of Wicked, Zelda, lord of the rings, that they might not just decide to throw all of those into a NEW park? I mean SNW was replacing Kidzone until they made the call to make it a headliner for Epic.

But there is a new park coming. Whatever goes in one side of the pond, wont go in the other.
So I think it is worth framing any discussion about what IPs go in what park, and consider that UC might be trying to figure out what goes where in 4 parks not 3, im not talking about Volcano Bay

https://forums.insideuniversal.net/threads/universal-great-britain.16149/unread

 

[Loki]

The construction of the garage(s) will be the signal that the fourth park is around the corner. But I don't expect that until at least half of the expansion pads (if not all of them) in Epic are completed. It's way more profitable for Universal to build upon Epic. And after fronting the expense of a brand new park and road infrastructure, Universal will go into recovery mode to recoup a lot of those. Universal can take a breath after almost six years of spending without getting anything in return. They aren't going to be in a hurry to bust out the credit card again just yet.

For context (but not a predictor of future possibilities)

Universal Studios Florida opened in 1990

IOA and the Garages opened in 1999.

Having a hard time finding if the garages came before or after IOA opened.

 

[Myah1220]

The more I think about it , the more it makes sense that this expansion will be Zelda alone. Luigi is technically already represented in Mario World. There is no real reason you would leave donkey Kong and then go back into another Mario inspired land.

I do wonder if the Zelda area will have it own portal though. I could see it being an additional 2 way exit , instead.

Agree. Also as much as I love the idea of Luigi’s Mansion, I wonder if the haunted house elements would feel too similar in theme to Dark Universe right next door? I know the details are very different, but I mean the concept of two haunted spooky haunted rides in two different lands? But I guess if we can have dragons in both HP and HTTYD maybe it’s not a big deal.

Also: re: LOTR and Zelda. I also think this is a case of two IPs that, while specifics are different obviously, the general concept/theme I think would feel too similar to the general public to have both. I think it would need to be one or the other and given that Zelda imagery is already in Epic, I think it gives Zelda the advantage over LOTR to come into fruition.

 

[tommyhawkins]

The construction of the garage(s) will be the signal that the fourth park is around the corner. But I don't expect that until at least half of the expansion pads (if not all of them) in Epic are completed. It's way more profitable for Universal to build upon Epic. And after fronting the expense of a brand new park and road infrastructure, Universal will go into recovery mode to recoup a lot of those. Universal can take a breath after almost six years of spending without getting anything in return. They aren't going to be in a hurry to bust out the credit card again just yet.

For context (but not a predictor of future possibilities)

Universal Studios Florida opened in 1990

IOA and the Garages opened in 1999.

Having a hard time finding if the garages came before or after IOA opened.

It's not 6 years of spending as if that raises the cost, the project budget was set before they green lit the park and would have a contingency of 20-30% built in. Actually taking longer to build is a budgetary tactic Disney LOVES to deploy with their CAPEX spending, the CAPEX spend always goes up in the last 2-3years of the project. The reality is, a new park will not have the same costs as EU or USGB (which is expected to spend its big money between 2027-2030). Everything is already there, that you talked about, Roads, BOH infrastructure etc.....the biggest expense will be reworking drainage ponds.

Talking about ROI, there is only so much expectation of what can be recouped in the first few years before new things are needed to to entice folks to revisit. Disney is suffering with attendance now because of decisions it made in 2020-2023, and unsurprisingly their new stuff isn't due to come online for a few years at the minimum.

Universal are bullish and have plans to prevent their north campus parks being cannibalised by Epic, so we can expect a trickle of new things up there, and the realistic and essential need to expand EU's capacity in Phase 2. The question is what comes first? Dragons, Potter, Monsters Internal land expansion or starting on the 3 lands of expansion pads they have.

So whilst im inclined to agree with the sentiment of a new park is not needed, yet, I would not be surprised if moderate spending happens between now and 2030 possibly including making a start on new gate (converting to Parking garages from flat lot), and major spending happens after USGB is done, just like how things went down with US Beijing into EU

 

[Loki]

So whilst im inclined to agree with the sentiment of a new park is not needed, yet, I would not be surprised if moderate spending happens between now and 2030 possibly including making a start on new gate, and major spending happens after USGB is done, just like how things went down with US Beijing into EU

Quoted the part I wholeheartedly agree with. I didn't want to imply that Universal isn't constantly planning and budgeting. I can tell you for a fact that Universal is not playing around when it comes to investing in Orlando.

 

[rhino4evr]

For a LOTR ride concept a “Soarin” with the great eagles over middle earth could prove popular. Of course it would endlessly be compared to Avatar. That being said, I don’t think lord of the rings is the right fit for a theme park.

 

[saint.piss]

For a LOTR ride concept a “Soarin” with the great eagles over middle earth could prove popular. Of course it would endlessly be compared to Avatar.

Something like this would be perfect for HTTYD tho...

 

[LPCaptainDeath]

Something like this would be perfect for HTTYD tho...

For HtTyD, we want a flight sim similar to Flight of Passage, right? Where WE get to ride a dragon ourselves. I'm looking back at the schematics of their cancelled broomstick ride where it shows 4 seats all looking at their own screen with the ability to freely move around each other and i just feel it's a no-brainer to move that over to HtTyD now. Have these things in their own little dragon stable rooms before giving us a lock and lift type experience with BttF/Simpsons where we fly out of the stable and into the room with the screen and we are golden.

For LotR, with Rhino referring to Soarin, we'd be carried by the Eagles - so they are different in execution and feel, much more passive. Not intentionally trying to split hairs, Saint, just trying to say that one of those experiences at least feels more intimate and personal than the other. Then again, this brings me back to that schematic of the ride vehicle that starts as a boat and gets picked up by something and starts flying. At first i thought it would work best for Legend of Zelda, but now i'm seeing it is literally PERFECT for LotR. Boat ride from Rivendell on the Anduin where we get picked up by the eagles right before the falls past The Argonath, probably putting us back down around Lorien/Mirkwood for some cool moments before reaching Gondor.

 

[Dragontrainer2]

Feeling like we may get a 5th gate at the newer universal property in Orlando next to epic before Disney builds a 5th park. If/when universal builds another park in Orlando just curious to hear everyone’s ideas for the park. I know it would be super far out likely after GB and Beijing’s new parks but always fun to speculate lol

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Feeling like we may get a 5th gate at the newer universal property in Orlando next to epic before Disney builds a 5th park. If/when universal builds another park in Orlando just curious to hear everyone’s ideas for the park. I know it would be super far out likely after GB and Beijing’s new parks but always fun to speculate lol

You think we’re getting Two new theme parks?? That’s two more than I think we’re getting.

 

[mccgavin]

You think we’re getting Two new theme parks?? That’s two more than I think we’re getting.

Well, according to Universal, Volcano Bay was the 3rd gate (even if it isn't really...)