Universal's Epic Universe Construction Thread

[Stitch_101]

I could see that area become a major hotel complex with convention space like Sapphire & Royal Pacific, but would Uni really invest into a new entertainment district?

Just doesn't make sense to separate it from Epic/potential 4th gate and other hotels unless it's a new type of CityWalk-type concept with experiences like Area 51 in Vegas or Meow Wolf that have attractions to draw people in? (e.g. maybe sort of Area 51 complex with Horror Unleashed?)


I think this area is likelier to become a large value resort complex in the style of Dockside/Surfside

It makes sense that it's separated when you look at the logistics of the land they have in the South campus. The original Citywalk was designed to be one massive campus guests wouldn't leave. That's changed for the company now. The South campus land is scattered all over. Even Helios, the one Epic main campus hotel, would have to have bus transportation when the park is closed for the evening if a new "CityWalk" was attached the parks. Most of the new South campus hotels are expected to be built on the smaller plots around Epic equally as already disconnected, and not right on the main chunk of land by the Park like Hard Rock or the others in the North Campus. I don't think they have the same incentive to make it attached to Epic the same way they made Citywalk attached to UO.

 

[Imperius]

Just build Universal Quest. VR broom riding, fight a dementor, Jurassic Park river raft escape, fast and furious racing sim, Autobots vs Decepticons astroblasters.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

It makes sense that it's separated when you look at the logistics of the land they have in the South campus. The original Citywalk was designed to be one massive campus guests wouldn't leave. That's changed for the company now. The South campus land is scattered all over. Even Helios, the one Epic main campus hotel, would have to have bus transportation when the park is closed for the evening if a new "CityWalk" was attached the parks. Most of the new South campus hotels are expected to be built on the smaller plots around Epic equally as already disconnected, and not right on the main chunk of land by the Park like Hard Rock or the others in the North Campus. I don't think they have the same incentive to make it attached to Epic the same way they made Citywalk attached to UO.

I could be wrong, but a retail & dining space immediately adjacent to theme parks that pull 10M+ guests a year is far more lucrative then putting it away from your parks unless there's a major attraction/draw there (ala Area 51, Meow Wolf, Horror Unleashed, etc.) Disney Springs works due to the amount of experiences, restaurants and retail there... a concept that Universal will never dedicate so much land for (you're already competing with Icon Park, Outlets (x2), and Pointe Orlando in the immediate area).

I'm not expecting a 2nd CityWalk complex adjacent to Epic/4th park, but a smaller hub with a Starbucks, large Universal store and maybe 3-4 dining concepts.

What makes the UOR North Campus amazing is, unlike Disney World, everything is only 1 transit/parking stop away with CityWalk and the parks all in one general area.

 

[Stitch_101]

View attachment 29523
I could be wrong, but a retail & dining space immediately adjacent to theme parks that pull 10M+ guests a year is far more lucrative then putting it away from your parks unless there's a major attraction/draw there (ala Area 51, Meow Wolf, Horror Unleashed, etc.) Disney Springs works due to the amount of experiences, restaurants and retail there... a concept that Universal will never dedicate so much land for (you're already competing with Icon Park, Outlets (x2), and Pointe Orlando in the immediate area).

I'm not expecting a 2nd CityWalk complex adjacent to Epic/4th park, but a smaller hub with a Starbucks, large Universal store and maybe 3-4 dining concepts.

What makes the UOR North Campus amazing is, unlike Disney World, everything is only 1 transit/parking stop away with CityWalk and the parks all in one general area.

You are forgetting the Convention Center of it all though. It's practically right across the street, catty corner, in the image you shared. Orange County Convention Center is the second largest by size in the US and 3rd largest for yearly attendance... and its a stones throw away from this new development and closer than even Epic itself. And yes, UO gets roughly 10 million visitors a year and Citywalk benefits... But International Drive pulls an estimated 12 million people every year outside the Universal Parks and a lot of those people never step foot in Citywalk or anything Universal related. Those are the crowds Universal would be targeting with a South campus development like this.

 

[JohnHammondsCane]

View attachment 29523
I could be wrong, but a retail & dining space immediately adjacent to theme parks that pull 10M+ guests a year is far more lucrative then putting it away from your parks unless there's a major attraction/draw there (ala Area 51, Meow Wolf, Horror Unleashed, etc.) Disney Springs works due to the amount of experiences, restaurants and retail there... a concept that Universal will never dedicate so much land for (you're already competing with Icon Park, Outlets (x2), and Pointe Orlando in the immediate area).

I'm not expecting a 2nd CityWalk complex adjacent to Epic/4th park, but a smaller hub with a Starbucks, large Universal store and maybe 3-4 dining concepts.

What makes the UOR North Campus amazing is, unlike Disney World, everything is only 1 transit/parking stop away with CityWalk and the parks all in one general area.

Not a lot to add, but want to thank you (and the usual others on here) for the maps/designs/layouts that you post. I'm basically a lurker that loves the theme park discussion, but I don't have much to add, so I love these types of posts!

Based on your map, could they build a water taxi route to take guests from the two hotels south of the 4th gate to Epic? One of my favorite parts of North campus is the water taxi as an alternative to busses.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

You are forgetting the Convention Center of it all though. It's practically right across the street, catty corner, in the image you shared. Orange County Convention Center is the second largest by size in the US and 3rd largest for yearly attendance... and its a stones throw away from this new development and closer than even Epic itself. And yes, UO gets roughly 10 million visitors a year and Citywalk benefits... But International Drive pulls an estimated 12 million people every year outside the Universal Parks and a lot of those people never step foot in Citywalk or anything Universal related. Those are the crowds Universal would be targeting with a South campus development like this.

I do expect a convention center hotel (ala Sapphire Falls) somewhere on that west parcel, but I just don't think another entertainment district there is the plan (excl. if they end up doing a Horror Unleashed type concept.)

Logistically, you'd have to put a parking garage there and unless they intend on moving parking there for Epic Universe (which the area's current roads can't accommodate) you run into logistical nightmare.

 

[Stitch_101]

I do expect a convention center hotel (ala Sapphire Falls) somewhere on that west parcel, but I just don't think another entertainment district there is the plan (excl. if they end up doing a Horror Unleashed type concept.)

Logistically, you'd have to put a parking garage there and unless they intend on moving parking there for Epic Universe (which the area's current roads can't accommodate) you run into logistical nightmare.

... You would have to put parking there for a convention hotel as well though. You wouldn't need North Campus Parking Garage size parking for just an entertainment area, as those are supporting two parks alongside Citywalk. You would need no more parking than currently exists at Icon Park. The fact that it would most likely have bus service to all Universal Hotels would also alleviate some of that.

 

[Disneyhead]

Parking is one reason that this may be a dining/entertainment complex. Since it is not connected to the park they could have free parking. I think CityWalk having parking tied to the parks very expensive paid parking squelchs CityWalk's numbers.

What if Universal entered into a symbiotic relationship with ICON Park. An elevated walkway connecting the two over Universal Blvd. Universal could also add a couple of attractions like a big beautiful RMC coaster like Arieforce One at Fun Spot Atlanta as the backdrop, Horror Unleashed, and now that Area 15 Orlando is dead possibly Meow Wolf.

Team that up with The Orlando Eye, Blue Man Group and Madame Tussauds and you would have a pretty solid tourist attraction.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Parking is one reason that this may be a dining/entertainment complex. Since it is not connected to the park they could have free parking. I think CityWalk having parking tied to the parks very expensive paid parking squelchs CityWalk's numbers.

What if Universal entered into a symbiotic relationship with ICON Park. An elevated walkway connecting the two over Universal Blvd. Universal could also add a couple of attractions like a big beautiful RMC coaster like Arieforce One at Fun Spot Atlanta as the backdrop, Horror Unleashed, and now that Area 15 Orlando is dead possibly Meow Wolf.

Team that up with The Orlando Eye, Blue Man Group and Madame Tussauds and you would have a pretty solid tourist attraction.

Assuming it's free parking and connected to the upcoming UOR transit system, that would cause a headache operationally if people try parking for free at the entertainment complex and head over to the parks.

Disney Springs doesn't connect to the parks directly until later in the day, but it solely relies on bus transportation that can take up to 30 minutes for some resorts (on bad days it can take longer), so parking here for the WDW parks is out of the question. A UOR transit system linked here would reduce the friction that Disney Springs sees and draw a lot of folks to park here instead of the parks which undermines that lucrative parking revenue. Unless they limit transportation access to onsite hotel guests and APs?

 

[HandsomePete]

I’m struggling to see how adding restaurants and shops in an area that’s inundated with restaurants and shops is that strong of an idea.

 

[fryoj]

I’m struggling to see how adding restaurants and shops in an area that’s inundated with restaurants and shops is that strong of an idea.

Because you want your guests going to your restaurants and shops instead of other people's restaurants and shops. You can also use the restaurants and shops as a way to bait people into going to your parks and hotels.

I've always been a proponent of adding a southern citiwalk to try and draw in Convention traffic. And, I do admit, this plot would be better from that perspective. But I really think the restaurants have to have easy access from the park/s. If you are building it over there, how easy is it going to be to leave EU, grab a bite to eat, then go back to the parks? If there's any barriers there at all, I think it limits how much your built in audience is willing to head over there.

 

[tielo]

Well, whatever is going there besides the "land maintenance" thing, is probably not the often requested Universal nudist resort aka Epic Cheeks.

 

[Alicia]

I’m struggling to see how adding restaurants and shops in an area that’s inundated with restaurants and shops is that strong of an idea.

Same reason they built value hotels off I-Drive not connected to existing resort, to compete with the I-Drive offerings and take a piece of the pie.

In this case, it would also make tourists driving between Epic and the north resort areas have more Universal bubble options to stop at along the way.

It is Universal Blvd after all.

 

[HandsomePete]

Same reason they built value hotels off I-Drive not connected to existing resort, to compete with the I-Drive offerings and take a piece of the pie.

Competing with I Drive hotels and competing with I Drive restaurants/Pointe/Icon are two completely different ballgames. There’s a value prop for staying at a Universal hotel on I Drive versus a different I Drive hotel; there’s no value prop for going to a Universal version of the commercial real estate that constantly turns over in that area. Not to mention that a large hang-out spot that’s open late with free parking would be a clientele dice roll.

In this case, it would also make tourists driving between Epic and the north resort areas have more Universal bubble options to stop at along the way.

Once a tourist is in a car driving on publicly-maintained roads, the “bubble” has popped.

 

[quinnmac000]

I’m struggling to see how adding restaurants and shops in an area that’s inundated with restaurants and shops is that strong of an idea.

In a way, you’re right—why add more restaurants and shops to an area that’s already inundated with them? There’s this assumption that the South Campus hub will just be a 'copy-paste' of the original CityWalk, but that doesn't actually meet the needs of this area. Epic Universe is already providing so many elevated dining options compared to the other parks, so focusing this district on food alone just doesn’t make sense.

However, if this campus focuses on an abundance of rich, active experiences, it could really shine; especially if it offers actual late-night options. Right now, Orlando park hours cater almost entirely to early birds who want to be there for rope drop. It’s a massive shift from 15 or 20 years ago when the parks stayed open much later, like those 3 AM nights at Magic Kingdom or Universal staying open until 11 PM to push people toward CityWalk.

ICON Park and Pointe Orlando are the two major hubs nearby, and while they’re decent, the quality of the experiences doesn't equal the 'world-class' price point they’re charging. If we’re being honest, it’s very gimmicky. There’s no depth or richness; it’s basically just 'all sugar' for the most part. The only reason they succeed is that their nightlife stays open until 2 AM, giving people—especially groups that aren't solely families with young children—options other than chilling in a hotel room.

This is where this second hub has a great chance to stand out. If you add in experiential bar and dining experiences that are high-class and elevated, you distinguish yourself in a way that allows people to enjoy 'CityWalk 2.0' for all it can be. Truthfully, it doesn’t take a lot—just unique concepts that are polished for Instagram and can’t be done easily in other places. It’s why Space 220 is so popular; it’s not because the food is good, it’s because it’s one of the few places where you can actually experience something like that.

Universal should lean into that by bringing in the teamLab team from Japan, the architects behind the City Museum in St. Louis, and working with Meow Wolf on an incredible exhibit. Instead of another Blue Man Group, they should commission Cirque du Soleil to create a bespoke show that runs in conjunction with a new Broadway-style theater. They should partner with the teams behind Sleep No More to design an escape room that is actually good and unique, and bring in the crew from Cats: "The Jellicle Ball" to design a nightclub concept. That would give Orlando a crowd-pleasing, fresh, and fashion-forward destination. It’s time to bring in elevated experiences and memories that can actually stay open until 2 AM.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

This is where this second hub has a great chance to stand out. If you add in experiential bar and dining experiences that are high-class and elevated, you distinguish yourself in a way that allows people to enjoy 'CityWalk 2.0' for all it can be. Truthfully, it doesn’t take a lot—just unique concepts that are polished for Instagram and can’t be done easily in other places. It’s why Space 220 is so popular; it’s not because the food is good, it’s because it’s one of the few places where you can actually experience something like that.

Great points, there's essentially two ways a project like this succeeds:

• If it's primarily an entertainment area with unique concepts (Horror Unleashed, Meow Wolf, etc.) then the I-Drive plot makes sense
• If it's primarily dining and retail, then immediately adjacent to the parks would be the better fit

I really think Horror Unleashed is a solid concept for the Orlando market and could anchor a new entertainment district. In addition to the already local fan base, you have lots of folks who visit Orlando who might be interested in attending HHN in the future but haven't convinced themselves yet. But if they're in Orlando for a park trip in January, the lower cost to attend Unleashed might convince them and then who knows, maybe you get them to sign up for a vacation package for HHN in September?


It's a very interesting project as, brought up by @Disneyhead above, Universal has the opportunity to work with the surrounding areas to create a new massive entertainment district. Pointe Orlando would be a short walk away and Icon Park half a mile away. If they can work on a transportation solution that helps get people off the street, even better.

 

[Alicia]

Once a tourist is in a car driving on publicly-maintained roads, the “bubble” has popped.

But but tunnels

 

[Mad Dog]

But but tunnels

Heck, even at Dockside & Surfside, the bubble pops. Once you're off the North Campus, it's WDW like. ....The leisure and relaxation becomes theme park hustle and bustle. Not bad stuff, but its different, not the same warm campus feeling.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

But but tunnels

Got a book coming out in December for you to read.

 

[Stitch_101]

Heck, even at Dockside & Surfside, the bubble pops. Once you're off the North Campus, it's WDW like. ....The leisure and relaxation becomes theme park hustle and bustle. Not bad stuff, but its different, not the same warm campus feeling.

I feel like this, right here is one of the biggest reasons Universal would look at doing something like an dining/entertainment complex in that location. The bubble doesn't exist anywhere south of I4, and no matter what Universal does it never will. The guests at those South Campus hotels will have higher likelihood of straying from Universal property because of everything between them and the Northern Campus and the lack of a cohesive bubble. Universal can ignore that and continue to try and create, as best they can, the bubble like structure without the bubble. Or they acknowledge that I-Drive exists, will always exist, will always syphon guests and instead of fighting it simply take a piece of the pie for themselves while targeting people like convention goers that would have not gone to Citywalk to begin with because of parking fees and other issues.

And I understand the push to want a park attached offering at Epic... But until a potential 4th gate is actively in development, the likelihood of that happening isn't the biggest. And a 4th gate is something not likely to happen in the next 10-20 years. So does Universal just sit back on their hands and wait and see? All while Orlando is funding a massive revitalization program that will simply see more new restaurants and attractions going in between their campuses? It's this reason that the 'value prop' argument rings kind of pedantic to me. It's not about building something to simply to give higher value for people to chose to stay at Universal properties. Yes, it is another perk for Universal hotels guests, but the real draw here is the ability to pull those I-Drive tourists and convention goers who make up a large part of the 12 million visitors to that area every year that aren't going Citywalk or spending money at a Universal property.