Universal's Epic Universe General News & Discussion

[Mad Dog]

MD, you know this happened with Epic too.

Well, then it must have been a really high standard. I complained to Guest Services my second day when there was that five hour period in the afternoon when just about every ride and show went down. They listened politely but offered 'nothing'.....I can see where they may have done that for Express passes, though.

 

[Hatetofly]

When I went to Universal Studios Florida in 1990 they had already given up on JAWS and it was closed permanently. (And BTTF wasn’t ready yet.)

At least Ministry is still actually open lol

But they tore Jaws down and turned BTTF into a nauseating Simpsons overlay. 0 out of 10 stars Alicia

 

[belloq87]

With the big caveat that I haven’t visited yet, so I can’t speak to how much the park feels like it needs more capacity when actually experiencing it, I do think the comparisons to the other Orlando parks being “underbuilt” at opening -- while technically true -- isn’t one-to-one because most of those parks already had significant things ready to go for years two and three.

• Magic Kingdom added If You Had Wings in the first year.
• Epcot added both Horizons and Journey into Imagination within 13 months of park opening.
• Disney-MGM Studios opened Star Tours, Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular, and Muppet*Vision within the first two years.
• USF opened Back to the Future the year after opening (granted, it temporarily lost the Jaws capacity during this time, as well, but that was an unanticipated scenario).
• Animal Kingdom opened Kali River Rapids and Asia the year after opening.

At best, whatever Epic’s first expansion will be (seems to be in Wizarding World) is probably still two-ish years away. I’m making no value judgment about that timeline (it would surprise nobody that I would wait for Epic to get expansions if it meant prioritizing major work at USF first), but it is worth noting that “help” for the park’s capacity is not coming as quickly as it did for the other parks.

 

[Jake S]

I do think the comparisons to the other Orlando parks being “underbuilt” at opening -- while technically true -- isn’t one-to-one because most of those parks already had significant things ready to go for years two and three.

I guess my take is that even if you look at it one-to-one ... we clowned all those parks when they struggled at opening, right? It's not like we're inventing a new standard for Epic Universe.

 

[belloq87]

I guess my take is that even if you look at it one-to-one ... we clowned all those parks when they struggled at opening, right? It's not like we're inventing a new standard for Epic Universe.

I mean... I was 11 when the most recent park on my list (Animal Kingdom) opened, so I wasn't in a position to be clowning anything!

In hindsight, I certainly think Disney-MGM and Animal Kingdom are deservedly looked at with skepticism in terms of their opening day/year line-ups (though, yes, there's all kinds of additional context with MGM in terms of how the company initially viewed the park as an intentional half-day experience).

 

[Jake S]

I mean... I was 11 when the most recent park on my list (Animal Kingdom) opened, so I wasn't in a position to be clowning anything!

In hindsight, I certainly think Disney-MGM and Animal Kingdom are deservedly looked at with skepticism in terms of their opening day/year line-ups (though, yes, there's all kinds of additional context with MGM in terms of how the company initially viewed the park as an intentional half-day experience).

Haha sorry, I was speaking to the royal we. I just mean that when parks have opened in the past with major flaws, those major flaws have been criticized. They didn't rush to fix California Adventure (solely) because they were embarrassed by it. They did it because people criticized it.

 

[Mad Dog]

The two most recent major Universal/Disney theme parks are Beijing and Shanghai. They both opened with fairly decent capacity and operations were OK with most of their attractions. A new park doesn't have to be an iffy experience.....There's been plenty of time to right this Epic ship. Management needs to step up and get it done instead of relying on excuses.......Epic could be really good if the right stuff happens. Right now, it's just sloughing along at about the same rate it was many months ago. It's unreliable for guests since the daily experience is still largely a lottery, too dependent on a good or bad day operations wise.

 

[Brian G.]

The two most recent major Universal/Disney theme parks are Beijing and Shanghai. They both opened with fairly decent capacity and operations were OK with most of their attractions. A new park doesn't have to be an iffy experience.....There's been plenty of time to right this Epic ship. Management needs to step up and get it done instead of relying on excuses.......Epic could be really good if the right stuff happens. Right now, it's just sloughing along at about the same rate it was many months ago. It's unreliable for guests since the daily experience is still largely a lottery, too dependent on a good or bad day operations wise.

Actually, I do want to make sure we’re accurate here. Shanghai did open with similar problems to Epic as far as demand and downtime, but they were able to right the ship quicker.

Beijing was probably the smoothest of Universal openings, mostly because Covid acted as an attendance buffer to offset the demand/downtime.

To add some additional context, both parks were tried and true concepts whereas the idea of EU’s layout is new.

 

[Mad Dog]

Actually, I do want to make sure we’re accurate here. Shanghai did open with similar problems to Epic as far as demand and downtime, but they were able to right the ship quicker.

Beijing was probably the smoothest of Universal openings, mostly because Covid acted as an attendance buffer to offset the demand/downtime.

To add some additional context, both parks were tried and true concepts whereas the idea of EU’s layout is new.

I wouldn't have as much of an issue with Epic if the clones were running better. But Mario, Yoshii and Dragons show, all clones, continue to have very significant downtime and lower than expected capacity for those two rides. And the fact that it's now 11 months since softs, and downtime is still about the same as it was in August. I'd be encouraged if there was more progress. It seems Monsters is about the only attraction that's successful with both fairly low downtime and actual capacity numbers right around their theoretical capacity.

 

[Evan]

I wouldn't have as much of an issue with Epic if the clones were running better. But Mario, Yoshii and Dragons show, all clones, continue to have very significant downtime and lower than expected capacity for those two rides. And the fact that it's now 11 months since softs, and downtime is still about the same as it was in August. I'd be encouraged if there was more progress. It seems Monsters is about the only attraction that's successful with both fairly low downtime and actual capacity numbers right around their theoretical capacity.

And again… we are quickly moving into bad weather season, so it will only get more bad reviews as it hits a second summer of most the park being shutdown every day due to inclement weather.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

To add some additional context, both parks were tried and true concepts whereas the idea of EU’s layout is new.

The park's layout has nothing to do with Epic's issues.

1. Designing a major Nintendo E-ticket attraction to barely run 900 guests an hour was a strategic planning mishap.
2. Opening up Ministry of Magic with poor downtime and lack of a backup plan (this is where a virtual queue that worked should have been implemented and ready to go, just in case + allowing express pass access here was a bad choice)
3. Indoor to Outdoor attraction ratio (great kinetics... but c'mon now)

I want to stress that the park creatively is fine (I don't think the layout of the park has anything to do with poor operations).

The two most recent major Universal/Disney theme parks are Beijing and Shanghai. They both opened with fairly decent capacity and operations were OK with most of their attractions. A new park doesn't have to be an iffy experience.....There's been plenty of time to right this Epic ship. Management needs to step up and get it done instead of relying on excuses.......Epic could be really good if the right stuff happens. Right now, it's just sloughing along at about the same rate it was many months ago. It's unreliable for guests since the daily experience is still largely a lottery, too dependent on a good or bad day operations wise.

Beijing did benefit from having ride systems that previously existed, Transformers, Minions, Forbidden Journey, etc. Jurassic was an existing ride system, but paired with more issues due to the impressive sequences. But yes, I think by now Mario Kart, Donkey Kong and Yoshi should be operating far more reliably with pre-existing versions already available. Same for Stardust and Wing Gliders not being efficient or running enough trains.



I really hope the special events "soundstage" being built features something for guests to do when it opens up. Would be a shame for the park to suffer capacity wise and have this space strictly reserved for special events (at least until an expansion/Ministry opens up).

 

[Brian G.]

The park's layout has nothing to do with Epic's issues.

I probably used “layout” too loosely there. I don’t mean the park's physical layout is causing downtime. I mean Epic’s overall design model is newer compared to Shanghai and Beijing.

They rely heavily on proven ride systems and established park design structures.

I just think that at this point, we’re circling the same points over and over. We’ve all acknowledged the downtime and capacity concerns. We've all acknowledged that we hope it gets better as quickly as possible. Universal clearly knows it, too. We know the rumors and speculation that they’re already adjusting and adding to the park.

 

[Clive]

I do think this conversation is starting to go in circles. Both people who have had excellent and disappointing times at Epic (I'm in the former camp) generally agree that the park needs significant help in several areas:

• Better general show maintenance and ride reliability/uptime
• More indoor attractions/experiences that can withstand Florida weather patterns
• More attractions/experiences to absorb crowds, period

We basically know that some sort of major, most likely indoor attraction is likely on the way for Potter, which will be a big help -- but that's at least two years away if everything goes well.

The most immediate thing Universal can probably do (in my opinion) is invest in a hiring spree to augment their maintenance teams, who clearly need the support/bandwidth. I suspect stuff like the exterior Nintendo show elements is being overlooked because they're forced to triage and prioritize ride uptime. Then, they could fast track one or two additional flat rides for Celestial Park, which I've mentioned before. A flat ride for Donkey Kong Country would also be great, but I get that's a tougher ask given the Nintendo of it all.

With that said, though... We can't really force Universal to do anything or move faster. They're obviously aware of these issues, and I suspect there are forces we aren't aware of that are preventing them from taking the most apparent courses of action. Do they have the resources from the powers that be to bring on qualified maintenance technicians? Is there a shortage of that kind of specialized labor in the Orlando area? Are broader economic and geopolitical realities making it tougher to quickly purchase flat rides (or are they in fact already working on those types of additions behind the scenes, without our knowledge)?

I'm absolutely guilty of this, but there's sometimes a sense here that if we complain enough or say the right thing with the right data on these forums, Universal will be forced to respond and implement the solutions we're proposing. This isn't to say they're infallible or incapable of making strategic errors -- they obviously are. But I'm suggesting that while it's productive to have conversations about what's working, what isn't, and what the path forward might look like, we should probably keep in mind that 1) most of us are on the same page here (no one is saying the status quo at Epic is acceptable) and 2) we can't will our preferred fixes into existence, no matter how great our posts are.

 

[mccgavin]

Is there a shortage of that kind of specialized labor in the Orlando area?

Yes, it's actually been somewhat of a notable issue in the area, and it has worsened in severity ever since Covid hit. This has also effected WDW to an extent as well. I suspect this is part of the reason why screen-based attractions have become more prevalent in recent years.

 

[DOOMBOT]

On paper, Epic feels like one of the most "complete" opening day parks we've seen.

It features all of the lands it was planned to have, all of the rides and shows are theoretically operating, and despite my occasional issues with the land design generally, every area feels reasonably developed. It doesn't feel like any one area was obviously cost-cut or anything. There's a solid amount of variety in the attractions, leaning towards outdoor attractions and rollercoasters, but even then there's a solid amount of novelty brought with each individual attraction. No rides step on any other rides' toes.

If operations can figure itself out, I believe the park on offer is genuinely enjoyable.

 

[OhHaiInternet95]

I probably used “layout” too loosely there. I don’t mean the park's physical layout is causing downtime. I mean Epic’s overall design model is newer compared to Shanghai and Beijing.

They rely heavily on proven ride systems and established park design structures.

I just think that at this point, we’re circling the same points over and over. We’ve all acknowledged the downtime and capacity concerns. We've all acknowledged that we hope it gets better as quickly as possible. Universal clearly knows it, too. We know the rumors and speculation that they’re already adjusting and adding to the park.

I think the layout is brilliant. I was astonished on my visit how quick it was to get from one end to another.