Celestial Park - General Discussion Thread

[UniversalRBLX]

Entertainment is unfortunately ones of those tricky things that’s not easy to make work especially in modern times where attention spans are not very high.

Look at IOA and how many shows it lost over the years as it matured as a theme park. Opening year had a ton of stuff but once the new millennium set in things slowly started getting cut.

If something doesn't work, it's ok to cut. But, you should then make an effort to replace it with better experiences.

If you want to leave a theater empty for a year or two, fine. But for 20+ years...?

 

[Parkscope Joe]

From my understanding, this was more about fine-tuning than budgetary.

I was just about to ask “but was the show good?”

 

[tybeekey]

There were multiple shows each cast did including a comedy one that talked about the lore of Celestial. All suffered from never being announced and their times not being posted and also expecting people to stand in front of the stage with no shade in direct sunlight. Pretty costly mistake for not wanting to put in some seating and some canopies.

 

[GA-MBIT]

There were multiple shows each cast did including a comedy one that talked about the lore of Celestial. All suffered from never being announced and their times not being posted and also expecting people to stand in front of the stage with no shade in direct sunlight. Pretty costly mistake for not wanting to put in some seating and some canopies.

It definitely seems like logistics was working hard against Celestial entertainment being a success over previews. High heat, lack of shade and seating, lack of promotion or advertising even in park maps or equivalent material, no promotion of original concepts to TM's or diehard fans that would eat this content up (Look at Cacao), opening crowds that want to make the most of their single day at the park, and no annual passes + a park design that encourages beelines from one Portal to another in order to see everything in a single day, etc.

Even if the shows were middling in quality, (which the vast majority of us will have no way of knowing); opening day Epic will be worse off for it. You all nailed it on the head on the last page or so. Celestial Park is huge, beautiful, and empty. It's a large expanse of stone, marble, and concrete without much to do besides the fine Carousel and some sit-down restaurants. To contrast, SNW has enough kinetics and energy built into the land itself, and is small-scale enough that if Mario and Donkey Kong M&G's were suddenly cut, the land would survive just fine. Celestial Park is the exact opposite imo.

The area is built for entertainment to fill the space and make it feel alive; without it, I worry Celestial will feel even more like a needlessly large liminal space that you are forced to trek between in order to see things you're actually interested in. It'll feel like the nu-Epcot Hub, with a Ruins aesthetic to sweeten that desolate feel. It needs benches, shade, and things to actually do; and that includes entertainment.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

The area is built for entertainment to fill the space and make it feel alive; without it, I worry Celestial will feel even more like a needlessly large liminal space that you are forced to trek between in order to see things you're actually interested in. It'll feel like the nu-Epcot Hub, with a Ruins aesthetic to sweeten that desolate feel. It needs benches, shade, and things to actually do; and that includes entertainment.

Nailed it on the head, really hoping whatever they left is good enough to fill the void. Celestial Park has a lot of kinetic energy, so I'm not too worried just yet.

The hub at Epcot is an apt comparison as it's pretty desolate during the day without either the Acrobat show or La Calle/Encanto stage show. It's only at night that it can stand on its own when it comes to feeling "alive".

 

[Speed]

I’ve seen bits and pieces of this show and really the only people that I could see being interested are younger children, but even then they won’t be able to see the show with the sun beaming down on them. This stage could be a great venue to showcase the citizens of Celestial park, but I don’t think that show was the one.

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

It definitely seems like logistics was working hard against Celestial entertainment being a success over previews. High heat, lack of shade and seating, lack of promotion or advertising even in park maps or equivalent material, no promotion of original concepts to TM's or diehard fans that would eat this content up (Look at Cacao), opening crowds that want to make the most of their single day at the park, and no annual passes + a park design that encourages beelines from one Portal to another in order to see everything in a single day, etc.

I definitely see how these logistics could have prevented the shows from succeeding, but a lot of these issues are self-defeating decisions (not advertising the show) or issues baked into the design and shape of the park ( no shade or seating ). Maybe I'm just struggling to see how they couldn't have forseen this outcome.

EDIT: TW for armchair imagineering, but just looking at aerials, to me the main problem with the Hemisphere structure, even accounting for tree cover growth over time, is that cover exists primarily to service the performers rather than the guests, which discourages guests from lingering to watch the show. Hypothetically, a small canopy or some tents in the circular thoroughfare between Starbucks and Celestiki could alleviate this issue.

 

[sparky]

Lots of bad rumblings on the economy, most especially the travel & restaurant industry with even the upper middle class cutting back (Economic reports in WSJ, NY Times, Wash. Post ). This could be reflected in why on site hotels seem to have slow booking outside of HHN. Epic will probably do great the first few months, and perhaps carry Studios and IOA, but it might be touch and go for Studios and IOA for the remainder of the non HHN year. Not going to be a prime year to open a new park. Though I think Epic will be OK, though not what original projections were beyond the first few months. I mentioned this last fall, and now it seems the soft, or worse, economy is almost a certainty. Its going to be a crazy year for the economy. Not what people were expecting.

The rumblings are real. We typically stay club at hard rock or royal, unless we are popping in for a quick hhn trip. We originally booked Helios club, and just this weekend switched to stella Luna. I dont like standing in lines, but just bought the express and booked a cheaper hotel. We have stayed at dockside for a last minute let's go to hhn trip, and really enjoyed it. I hope stella is at least as good as dockside. We did find the food at dockside to be really good. Their kid's grilled cheese is amazing.

I’ve seen bits and pieces of this show and really the only people that I could see being interested are younger children, but even then they won’t be able to see the show with the sun beaming down on them. This stage could be a great venue to showcase the citizens of Celestial park, but I don’t think that show was the one.

I wonder if they did the show in the early morning and evening ? Would that help?

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

I wonder if they did the show in the early morning and evening ? Would that help?

I think as much as future tree growth and earlier showings could help, if the issue with the shows was related to shade, than the solution would be designing the park for the Florida of 2025 and not the Florida of 1975. It doesn't even have to be fancy, it could just be some tarps bound between two poles.

Again the park isn't open yet, but I think preview visitors are largely being genuine with their short-term issues with shade.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Would have been cool (figuratively and literally) of them to add a 2nd Constellation Carousel-esque structure over this entertainment area. Even with no performances, it would have been a nice break & shaded area.

Celestial Park has a lot of indoor seating, but the question is if UOR limits entrance for guests who are actually eating. They're pretty strict with that at a few QSRs at USF/IOA.

 

[Ryuniversal]

It’s really not what people think it is a non ip based land with a central bland theater u can get away with a lot your not tied to one single show to where everything is designed for the show like untrained dragon or the potter show here u can test out multiple different shows and designs and see what sticks if not just keep going like it’s just trying different things out they have the luxury and the time to do that we are still 2 months from park open soo they can still play around with a lot who knows what the Finished product of this park will be

 

[Casper Gutman]

Lots of bad rumblings on the economy, most especially the travel & restaurant industry with even the upper middle class cutting back (Economic reports in WSJ, NY Times, Wash. Post ). This could be reflected in why on site hotels seem to have slow booking outside of HHN. Epic will probably do great the first few months, and perhaps carry Studios and IOA, but it might be touch and go for Studios and IOA for the remainder of the non HHN year. Not going to be a prime year to open a new park. Though I think Epic will be OK, though not what original projections were beyond the first few months. I mentioned this last fall, and now it seems the soft, or worse, economy is almost a certainty. It’s going to be a crazy year for the economy. Not what people were expecting.

PS: I posted this before reading Ga-mbits post above, which hits the same points more eloquently.

If people weren’t expecting this, especially people who get paid a lot of money to “expect” economic development, they were being willfully ignorant.

Universal choose an unconventional park design and it requires an unconventional entertainment strategy. Most theme park entry areas are relatively small, compact zones enlivened by tightly-packed restaurants and stores. Celestial Gardens has an extremely high risk of becoming a huge, empty dead area that serves as nothing more than a barrier between lands, a larger version of the new and very underwhelming center of Future World at EPCOT.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Universal choose an unconventional park design and it requires an unconventional entertainment strategy. Most theme park entry areas are relatively small, compact zones enlivened by tightly-packed restaurants and stores. Celestial Gardens has an extremely high risk of becoming a huge, empty dead zone that serves as nothing more than a barrier between lands, a larger version of the new and very underwhelming center of Future World at EPCOT.

I disagree. I don't think the hub will follow a similar fate to Epcot's hub. Unlike Epcot (where the center of gravity shifts from Future World to World Showcase later in the day), the hub will be frequented throughout the day.

I have many issues with some choices they have made, but I don't think it'll be dead. It does have the opportunity to become (what I think Disney originally wanted to do) a major "hub" for people to hang out in once the park can be frequented by locals.

 

[Eckert]

The shows definitely need to get reworked. Hard to do a show about Epic Universe when you're not even allowed to say Nintendo. That stage area also has three places to get food/drink, and NO shaded seating directly in front of the stage. The park needs passive entertainment, like the piano player at Magic Kingdom, not "gather round gather round" type shows at a park where everyone is trying to get on the rides before they break down.

 

[Brian G.]

Just bring the Capt Cacao M&G and call it.

 

[Eckert]

Just bring the Capt Cacao M&G and call it.

Unironically this. Can meet near the candy store, it's all a shaded area...Universal's Duffy! Would be more popular and cuter than Earl the Squirrel.

 

[HandsomePete]

Celestial Park is huge, beautiful, and empty. It's a large expanse of stone, marble, and concrete without much to do besides the fine Carousel and some sit-down restaurants. To contrast, SNW has enough kinetics and energy built into the land itself, and is small-scale enough that if Mario and Donkey Kong M&G's were suddenly cut, the land would survive just fine. Celestial Park is the exact opposite imo.

The area is built for entertainment to fill the space and make it feel alive; without it, I worry Celestial will feel even more like a needlessly large liminal space that you are forced to trek between in order to see things you're actually interested in. It'll feel like the nu-Epcot Hub, with a Ruins aesthetic to sweeten that desolate feel. It needs benches, shade, and things to actually do; and that includes entertainment.

I’ve kept my thoughts to myself over the last few months instead of being Guy With a Hot Take but this hits at what I’ve thought about Celestial Park once it was (mostly) built: there’s a good chance that the GP is not going to view it as a “land” and adding “lore” isn’t going to change that with them. It’s not going to ruin the park or anything, but when you lean so hard on the “portals transport you to immersive worlds” concept, it makes the non-portaled, non-immersive part of the park more of a pass-through area.

A bunch of others have pointed this out but it does seem like it could feel like the Epcot center hub. They’ve put meet and greets there, there’s entertainment with those acrobats and the DJ dance party, but it’s still just a meh space.

I appreciate them shooting for the stars (pun intended ) with the center area but even with entertainment I have a hard time seeing the GP look at it as anything more than, “okay cool… how do I get to the next land?”

 

[DarkMetroid567]

It’s really not what people think it is a non ip based land with a central bland theater u can get away with a lot your not tied to one single show to where everything is designed for the show like untrained dragon or the potter show here u can test out multiple different shows and designs and see what sticks if not just keep going like it’s just trying different things out they have the luxury and the time to do that we are still 2 months from park open soo they can still play around with a lot who knows what the Finished product of this park will be

I don’t doubt that something is gonna happen but with this little time remaining I think expectations should be kept low. I’d expect a dance party with pop hits like EPCOT and the other Universal parks. Get ready to hear Can’t Stop the Feeling!!

 

[DrStarlander]

From what I can tell (remotely), Celestial Park is attempting be a classical "pleasure garden" and already has many of the attributes to pull that off. But what makes a pleasure garden magical -- and a place not to hurry through but rather to enjoy -- are all the landscape features such as follies and grottos and little walled gardens. These whimsical places to discover and explore add unexpected texture, story-telling, and sensory stimulation (the sounds of waterfalls, the smells of flowers, the sight of sculptures and little architectural vignettes like gazebos, arbors, faux classical ruins).

The Snow White Grotto at Disneyland comes to mind as an example of something like this within a theme park.

From the air, it looks like there are a few areas of negative space where these features could be added over time, and I think they could help fulfill the intention of Celestial Park and help make it place people really enjoy -- as people have enjoyed gardens for centuries. I also have no doubt tree growth will dramatically improve the atmosphere and comfort. Celestial Park may be underwhelming for some guests in the early years but I think decades from now it will be a core reason why people love Epic Universe.

 

[GA-MBIT]

From what I can tell (remotely), Celestial Park is attempting be a classical "pleasure garden" and already has many of the attributes to pull that off. But what makes a pleasure garden magical -- and a place not to hurry through but rather to enjoy -- are all the landscape features such as follies and grottos and little walled gardens. These whimsical places to discover and explore add unexpected texture, story-telling, and sensory stimulation (the sounds of waterfalls, the smells of flowers, the sight of sculptures and little architectural vignettes like gazebos, arbors, faux classical ruins).

The Snow White Grotto at Disneyland comes to mind as an example of something like this within a theme park.

From the air, it looks like there are a few areas of negative space where these features could be added over time, and I think they could help fulfill the intention of Celestial Park and help make it place people really enjoy -- as people have enjoyed gardens for centuries. I also have no doubt tree growth will dramatically improve the atmosphere and comfort. Celestial Park may be underwhelming for some guests in the early years but I think decades from now it will be a core reason why people love Epic Universe.

I can certainly hope. A part of me looks back at opening day promises from plenty of other huge, expensive, and ambitious parks that never got those upgrades they sorely needed, and often, still need.

It's a bit early to catastrophize or anything like that, but I am also of the mind that the park that we have now is largely what it will be for the long-term foreseeable future.