Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[Mad Dog]

Everyone. Lets back away from the "I like xxx I hope xxx and yyy are in the new park" stuff. Just like what happened about a year or two ago in the KidZone thread.

But isn't that what this thread is about? It wasn't that long ago that posters were being chastised for saying they were hoping for a Nintendo Land, and to the surprise of most everyone, now there will be a Nintendo land. There needs to be somewhere to talk about what ifs and maybes, because guess what, they just may end up happening. Usually I agree with your points, and you make some really excellent comments, but on this topic I must respectfully state , "let the posters have their say". :smile:

 

[WAJAS]

But isn't that what this thread is about? It wasn't that long ago that posters were being chastised for saying they were hoping for a Nintendo Land, and to the surprise of most everyone, now there will be a Nintendo land. There needs to be somewhere to talk about what ifs and maybes, because guess what, they just may end up happening. Usually I agree with your points, and you make some really excellent comments, but on this topic I must respectfully state , "let the posters have their say". :smile:

And then the admins said, let there be fun.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

But isn't that what this thread is about? It wasn't that long ago that posters were being chastised for saying they were hoping for a Nintendo Land, and to the surprise of most everyone, now there will be a Nintendo land. There needs to be somewhere to talk about what ifs and maybes, because guess what, they just may end up happening. Usually I agree with your points, and you make some really excellent comments, but on this topic I must respectfully state , "let the posters have their say". :smile:

Just trying to keep things on track. Yes, people wanted Nintendo land, they also debated and discussed around 10-15 other properties over and over again. Just want to keep everyone on track, especially since this is the resort expansion thread, not a third park thread (yet....). We're all good guys. NBD

 

[IzzyB]

Just so you know, I was kinda asking for persons with legal/county tax/real estate knowledge how and why one corp would own retention ponds that lay in the center of another property. Those ponds were only built in the past 7 and 10 years. What is UCPM up to?

I can only imagine that Comcast/Universal is negotiating for it. No one will ever pay UCPM more, except perhaps... Disney. :saywhat:

I have to say retention pond ownership really never made much sense to me here in Central Florida. Both in my old and in my new neighborhood there are retention ponds on the corner of the property that are owned by other corporations. But they own no other land around their. It is really odd how land is divided up sometimes. So not sure that they are up to something more than just things are strange down here. Also, old lockheed land is even stranger. My house sits on old lockheed land it is all wacky around here lol

Also it is really simple to find out land ownership information with the below mad search app for orange county.

OCPA Interactive MAP

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

But isn't that what this thread is about? It wasn't that long ago that posters were being chastised for saying they were hoping for a Nintendo Land, and to the surprise of most everyone, now there will be a Nintendo land. There needs to be somewhere to talk about what ifs and maybes, because guess what, they just may end up happening. Usually I agree with your points, and you make some really excellent comments, but on this topic I must respectfully state , "let the posters have their say". :smile:

We should have a Blue Sky universal thread. Just for that purpose. To keep specific threads from being derailed with our great ideas.

 

[Nick]

We should have a Blue Sky universal thread. Just for that purpose. To keep specific threads from being derailed with our great ideas.

But then what is this thread about? When the news broke about the lockheed land likely going back to Uni, we were told to post here about it. Are we not supposed to speculate on what they could do with the area?

 

[IzzyB]

But then what is this thread about? When the news broke about the lockheed land likely going back to Uni, we were told to post here about it. Are we not supposed to speculate on what they could do with the area?

My guess is that this post is more about the probability of an expansion along with talk about new land. And having a separate thread about 3rd park ideas would allow those that only care about the new land be able to read and discuss that here and those that want to move on to what will be built would have their own thread.

 

[WAJAS]

We should have a Blue Sky universal thread. Just for that purpose. To keep specific threads from being derailed with our great ideas.

Uh...
Universal Post-2019 | Orlando United Forums

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Uh...
Universal Post-2019 | Orlando United Forums

Not what I mean.
That's still date specific.
I mean a thread where a person can just share their wants and desires about what they would like to see etc.
Nevertheless we do have a town of threads though in a lot of areasdate.
I know it's frowned upon but I don't like to revive severely old threads, but it may help stabalize thread hijacking. lol I don't know.

 

[*Q*]

I think everyone is a tad over-optimistic about the timeline here.

Yes I realize not exactly apples and oranges, but the Beijing project (now set for 2020) has been bubbling along at the current site since at least 2012. The third gate for Universal is really more of a second resort, this will by no means be an easy project. Hotels, new retail and dining, new parking structures, new transportation options etc. etc. This is not something that is going to suddenly pop into existence in under 36 months.

I don't really have a good guess myself for when the second resort complex might actually open, but I also don't really think Beijing is a good comparison. It seems like everything I've heard about getting these China parks up and running is a bureaucratic nightmare, and the only thing that forces them through all of the endless red tape is the ungodly amounts of money waiting to be made on the other side. Just an immensely much more complicated situation overall. They were even relocating an entire neighborhood, whereas the Lockheed Martin site is a blank slate pretty much ready to be built on. And how much of the legal groundwork has already been set due to their original plans from twenty years ago, and how much more has been done in secret as they've been accelerating new plans in recent years? I don't think it's a big stretch of the imagination to say that that could be finished up in the next year or two, and have construction start in 2017 with a three-year timeline.

I'd certainly love to be wrong, but a more realistic year is 2023. Comcast is certainly guns blazing, but I'm not sure how much P&R capex will like having two "resorts" opening in such close succession 2020 Beijing and 2021 Orlando as has been suggested here with their final two years overlapping when the spending faucet is absolutely gushing out cash.

Please forgive me if I am mistaken here, but isn't Universal Beijing owned by a third-party? Like the Oriental Land Company owns Tokyo Disney? If that's the case, then it would be the third party spending a majority, if not all, of the money, and wouldn't fall anywhere under Comcast's balance sheets. If opening two resort complexes within a year or two of each other would even be that much of a concern to begin with.

And more to the point, I want their two current parks to be essentially pristine before shifting attention to a third gate. One of WDW's biggest mistakes in my opinion is opening their last gate too soon.

The Studio's in particular has a long... long way to go. It's certainly getting there rather quickly though, but I don't want it falling on the back burner post Kid-Zone because the third gate is coming.

A long way to go? USF has been receiving the most attention out of any Orlando park over the past fifteen years! Transformers, Diagon Alley, Despicable Me, Simpsons/Springfield, Mummy, T2:3D is getting plussed, and now Fast and the Furious, Race Through New York, and Nintendo are coming. All I would say the park needs now is a good replacement for Shrek, a good update for the Cinematic Spectacular, those rumored updates for the Mummy, maybe a replacement for T2 depending on how that franchise plays out in the long-term, and remove Hollywood Rip Ride Rock It.

 

[Teebin]

So, in 1995 there were earth surrounded bunkers on the south of the lockheed property next to Universal Blvd. Would those have been old Lockheed bunkers or new Universal fireworks bunkers? At that time, it was still Universal's property.

Too, on the northeast side of the property, there appeared to be missile test tracks in straight lines, shooting out from a central location. Test tracks like the track in the Indiana Jones Skull movie when Indiana and the Russian get stuck and rocket propelled into the desert. Ain't that cool if that is what it was?

 

[Teebin]

Circa 1995: yellow = bunkers, blue = tracks

I extended the lines because the center track shows hints of it's original length. The other two do not but it would be common for such tests to extend 1.5-2 miles which was somewhat standard if not short in Nevada test grounds.

 

[Brian G.]

OK let's try to streamline the discussions a bit to get it more organized:

Let's leave this thread of general expansion talk; whether it'll happen or not, transportation concerns, and totality of the entire possible project, not solely focused on 3rd Park Blue Sky ideas.

To discuss Blue Sky ideas, come to this thread: Universal's 3rd Park Blue Sky Thread | Orlando United Forums

 

[brianlo]

A long way to go? USF has been receiving the most attention out of any Orlando park over the past fifteen years! Transformers, Diagon Alley, Despicable Me, Simpsons/Springfield, Mummy, T2:3D is getting plussed, and now Fast and the Furious, Race Through New York, and Nintendo are coming. All I would say the park needs now is a good replacement for Shrek, a good update for the Cinematic Spectacular, those rumored updates for the Mummy, maybe a replacement for T2 depending on how that franchise plays out in the long-term, and remove Hollywood Rip Ride Rock It.

Like I said, it's come a long way already, but it still has a long, long way to go. Not that I doubt it won't get there.

As of today, it has a long way to go. You can't jump ahead to 2017/2018 by including F&F/Fallon and Nintendo. Those are still part of the "to go". The park also needs a DCA-like rethink on their entire entrance hub, a replacement for Fear Factor and something with MIB. It would be nice if they'd stop celebrating ET's 20th and bring that attraction up to speed.

By my count that's approaching half the park that still needs to be redone (even if a large part of that is scheduled already). So yes, that's a long way to go.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Like I said, it's come a long way already, but it still has a long, long way to go. Not that I doubt it won't get there.

As of today, it has a long way to go. You can't jump ahead to 2017/2018 by including F&F/Fallon and Nintendo. Those are still part of the "to go". The park also needs a DCA-like rethink on their entire entrance hub, a replacement for Fear Factor and something with MIB. It would be nice if they'd stop celebrating ET's 20th and bring that attraction up to speed.

By my count that's approaching half the park that still needs to be redone (even if a large part of that is scheduled already). So yes, that's a long way to go.

I agree, this is also the same logic for DHS/DAK IMHO. DHS and DAK was neglected for so long they need a lot of work. We're on a journey to a better theme park, we're not done just because Diagon Alley is open and Star Wars land was announced.

 

[*Q*]

Like I said, it's come a long way already, but it still has a long, long way to go. Not that I doubt it won't get there.

As of today, it has a long way to go. You can't jump ahead to 2017/2018 by including F&F/Fallon and Nintendo. Those are still part of the "to go". The park also needs a DCA-like rethink on their entire entrance hub, a replacement for Fear Factor and something with MIB. It would be nice if they'd stop celebrating ET's 20th and bring that attraction up to speed.

By my count that's approaching half the park that still needs to be redone (even if a large part of that is scheduled already). So yes, that's a long way to go.

That's just semantics. By the time that they're ready to put shovels in the ground for the second site, Fallon and the Furious will be done, and Nintendo will probably be well on its way. While I would love to see everything in the Shrek and Despicable area be redesigned and rearranged and provide more of an inviting entryway, that's just something that I think would be a luxury, and not necessarily needed. Fear Factor doesn't need to be replaced right away, leaving the theater as is leaves some flexibility for the park for things like Bill & Ted and other shows, and set aside as an expansion pad for the future. MiB probably doesn't even really need to be touched, although some enhancements would be welcome. But it really doesn't need to be replaced, especially with talk of more movies with a new cast. E.T. does need to be refurbished and hopefully get some enhancements. So, yes, there's some work to be done, but certainly not enough to have any bearing on when the second site should get up and running. The park is in GREAT shape overall, perhaps even the best shape out of any of the Orlando parks.

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Maybe Universal could benefit from using all space in the theme parks including expansion areas before replacing another ride.

 

[Marle Brando]

How realistic is it to have heavy capacity gondola cable cars connecting Universal A, with a station @WetnWild plot, then out to Universal B plot. Similar to the Roosevelt Island Tramway in NY where each car has a 110 person capacity. Without any expert knowledge, I would assume this would be less expensive than a monorail system and unique to Universal Orlando. For those who fear the ride, buses would be the alternate.

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

How realistic is it to have heavy capacity gondola cable cars connecting Universal A, with a station @WetnWild plot, then out to Universal B plot. Similar to the Roosevelt Island Tramway in NY. Without any expert knowledge, I would assume this would be less expensive than a monorail system and unique to Universal Orlando. For those who fear the ride, buses would be the alternate.

What does the Roosevelt thing you are talking about look like? I imagine same realism as anything that needs to cross interstate 4. That's very expensive.

 

[Nick]

How realistic is it to have heavy capacity gondola cable cars connecting Universal A, with a station @WetnWild plot, then out to Universal B plot. Similar to the Roosevelt Island Tramway in NY. Without any expert knowledge, I would assume this would be less expensive than a monorail system and unique to Universal Orlando. For those who fear the ride, buses would be the alternate.

It certainly wouldn't be unique to UO, just like monorails aren't unique to WDW. However, something like that may work, but I would have doubts that they could get it to high enough capacity to be a viable option.